Considering the positive feedback loops which are self-perpetuating by definition, meaning that it's getting progressively warmer on its own now, why does anyone think there's anything that can be done to stop climate change?
One big difference is that the rate of change was much slower then, and life could adapt to it.
Earth will survive. Whether we will, or many other forms of life, is another matter. There have been several big extinctions, and it took a long time for much of that life to be replaced by other species.
When I was a little boy and listening to my mother and father discussing Darwin, during my father's studies to become ordained as a Protestant minister, my father took me to the Mammoth Cave in Kentucky and also the the coal mine pits spotted throughout our southern Indiana counties. In both instances there were many feet of limestone covering the coal layer or beneath the coal seams. Dad showed my the small crustacean shells and skeletons of animals that had inhabited the oceans many millions of years ago. Later I climbed down into the Grand Canyon whee some of the layers of limestone are 400 feet or so thick. It should be obvious to the casual observer that during the times of such limestone layers being laid down that the carbon dioxide concentration nut have been pretty high. The earth recovered and mankind developed. Explain this to me so I can understand it.
Your Rightist panelists tend to violate the mood of “discussion”, thereby diminishing your show’s quality. I fast-forward through such segments, or change to another news-website.
This kind of leading can be infectious to health. There should be proper protection for nurses so as to stay away form the diseases like ebola. Medical uniforms or scrubs and other sources should be provides to nurses in the medical industry as they serve people, which will prevent them. The mask also should be provided for cetain healthcare issues.
The issue is called the aragonite saturation point, where calcium-carbonate shells start dissolving the pH globally to do this 7.9, we dropped pH -0.1 or 30% from 8.2 and the negative rate is increasing.
Within 60-years all Alaskan waters will be at or below this saturation point, today the Beaufort Sea is at unity and already showing damage to pteropod populations.
It's not just acidity also loss of multi-year 4-9 year-old sea-ice affecting seasonal changes to species with less ice and more light below that now support more plankton below the melt ponds than before ["ARCUS D.C. Arctic Research Seminar Series - 31 March 2016";55:33; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1kq7I3X5SY].
Atmospheric CO2 off the Washington coast right now is 399.5, ocean is 279.6 a forcing of 119.9-ppm and they should be close to the same to not acidify for shellfish, this is real-time from the Cape Elizabeth platform: http://nvs.nanoos.org/ShellfishGrowers
Ending emissions is the ONLY way to reduce the forcing and slow the acidification which is 10-times faster than a mass-extinction, the long talk on ocean acidification [ "ICES ASC 2013 plenary lecture by Dr Richard Feely"; 1:01:08; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etFob9Wy45E].
Our global problem is like this, a full glacial cycle takes 100,000-years and CO2 varies 100-ppm, from 180-280-ppm.
During all those ice-ages the maximum CO2 was 305±5-ppm, ok, we passed that about 1916 and since then added 100-ppm !!
That's a glacial cycle in only 100-years and it's all ABOVE the highest CO2 value ever reached in a million years, acidifying the oceans 10-times faster than an extinction event.
We must exit the Steam Age for electrons, most grid power is for thermal end-uses not electricity so to switch will only take 5-years, maybe 2-months if it was a war.
Mankinds Greed & short sightedness will Destroy the planet ! Out of control population growth will waste earths precious natural resources ! GOP will NOT pass ANY regulations to stop this disaster ! After all Its all about keeping the ruling class / billionaires Happy..NO matter the human cost ! Much of world is poor, uneducated, without clean water or sanitation. Most importantly, women lack access to birth control . Men in these countries keep it that way ! Educate women and the entire village, tribe benefits . Micro loans help small business's flourish.. women gain confidence , they educate their children and so it goes...
I think that even progressive talk shows and progressive candidates give short shrift to the plight of all the other species that weave the world together for us. When I call in to "progressive" shows, I do not get the back and forth dialogue that others get if they are talking about black lives matter or Donald Trump or Hillary - I get to say a bit about some horror slaughterhouse of tame or wild animals and "thank you for your comment".
We need to move to a plant - based diet. If the World Watch Institute is correct that 52% of climate change is caused by animal agriculture, one would not know it from talking to 350.org folks even. Cutting out toxic carcasses from our diet is a no brainer on every level - but still a taboo topic for non-profits and even Bill McKibben yet it could empower every citizen ( lacking government leadership ) to act immediately to mitigate climate change.
Right now in Wisconsin, 5,000 black bears, mostly cubs less than a year and a half old are being murdered with packs of dogs ripping them apart to add to the "fun" - one and a half times the number of people killed in 9/11 but we are such an arrogant animal species that this is not considered genocide? Ocean destruction of large mammals not considered genocide. Primates still experimented on in universities? Slaughterhouses with 65 billion farm animals deliberately raised for slaughter taking out rainforests to feed them all over the globe. What insanity that we do not talk about this at every opportunity to educate a disengaged and disenfranchised public citizenry.
Circa 1960, I noticed that far-rightist John Birchers were deploying Tocqueville as part of the pedigree behind their notion that Lefties tend “communistic”-etc. F’rinstance: the quote re “… an immense and tutelary power ....”, about which Your take is more on-point. Seems clear to me that such “immense and tutelary power” is a feature of our Plutocratic-flavored Fascism {ie, fits into Trumpismo}.
The neo-libcon ideology of Mises, Hayek, the Austrian School of Economics, Ayn Rand, and the Chicago School of Economics under Friedman are at the base of the destruction of "Democratic rule" and economics for humanity.
Through "Think Tanks" and government collusion with the corporate and economic elite, the ideological attack on the social structure of societies and the foundations of democracy have found their way into the mainstream of North America.
After sponsoring individuals in "Third World Countries", during the 50's and 60's, with natural resources to attend the "Chicago School of Economics" under the direct tutilege of Milton Friedman, these converted apparatchiks returned to their native countries where they quietly rose in political power and created "new" government economic and social regulations; ready to be imposed with a US backed military coup, ie: Chile, etc.
The austerity applied to those citizens has refined itself into the non-military apostasy of Constitutional Democracy by deceptively conflating their neo-libcon "Fascist" ideology on ethical democratic economics by turning our "Use Value" economic system into the speculative greed of "Exchange Value" only system which is responsible for the obscene "Wealth Gap".
It is adherence to this skewed ideological precept that has hollowed out our social and democratic pillars through the belief of "Commodification, monetisation and privatisation of "EVERYTHING"! In the minds of power hungry, sociopathic narcissists, this is their license to ignore centuries of Humanist growth and laws respecting the "RIGHTS of MAN". In the Charter of the Forest- (1217), The Charter specifically states that "Henceforth every freeman, in his wood or on his land that he has in the forest, may with impunity make a mill, fish-preserve, pond, marl-pit, ditch, or arable in cultivated land outside coverts, provided that no injury is thereby given to any neighbour."
This was the first law for the Rights of Humans against the totalitarianism of the Barons, Earls and Kings
This neo-libcon ideology is a poisonous anathema to the hard fought "Rights for Civilians and the general welfare of society". As we are witnessing, the voice of the people has been bought out by the elite; the environment that sustains human life has proven to mean nothing to these greedy despoilers; the Civil Rights of Taxpayers are bulldozed by "The Rule of Law" which is nothing but a usurpation of our civil law through an undemocratic government-corporate collusion upheld by the "IMPS" who were taught to see the "Price of everything and the Value of Nothing"!!!
I agree with the TxPeon above. We will only prosecute the banksters when we get money OUT of gov't. Certainly not, as long as the Oligarchs of Corporatocracy, of the GOP, in particular, are in congress. The DNC is not much better, but the Progressive wing begins to see the light of the peoples' eyes on the truth. The people are more enlightened because of Senator Bernie Sanders's campaign. Now, we need Sen. Eliz. Warren to be Sectretary of the Treasury and for all the people to press the corruption of Wall St. up against the wall with regulations. Hopefully, Trump will have destroyed the insanely corrupt GOP by Nov. 8th and hopefully, Sec. Clinton has seen the light that Bernie shined on truth to expose the Banksters and her closeness to Wall St. We have to hope, because CLIMATE CRISIS CATASTROPHE is headed our way shortly, and the future of life on this planet is hotly at stake NOW. We are barreling down on Climate Catastrophe and a Sixth Extinction like a speeding train with brakes gone foul. TO SAVE EVERYTHING WE NEED EVERYONE, NOW! Watch www.GreenWorldRising.org. ONLY the political will is lacking to save civilization, and our beloved children, but millions care and are aware, especially Thom Hartmann, Leonardo DiCaprio, Bill McKibben, Rev. Yearwood of the Hip Hop Nation, Black Lives Matter, and our brave Native Ameicans at the Dakota Access Pipeline WATER & LAND PROTECTION ACTION and the millenials who were for Bernie, but now should be pragmatic like Bernie & vote Clinton so we can continue The Peoples Political Revolution. With Trump we'd have a Police State with no recourse to protest without be shot or arrested. Support our Native Sioux & other tribal nations in Dakota & elsewhere! It's better to light one candle than rage against the darkness. Get out & StopTrump! Editor: http://www.eco-poetry.org/climate_crisis-is-here.html
Or, while waiting for Positive Train Control, simply hire another engineer to ride along in the cab and take over when the regular engineer is distracted or disabled. We'd increase the number of jobs and add another potential home owner and tax payer.
Obviously the Bush tax cuts are part of the Reagan trickle down swindle/ideology, and one stat I was able to dig up indicates that just from 2001-2010 these cuts ended up costing the treasury 2.5 trillion. That's a lot of infrastructure money that wasn't! During that same time period a massive number of jobs went overseas and we had a economic crash.....that's trickle down.
Yet here we are in 2016 with the Trump/Ryan team wanting to keep America down again with that same old trickle down economy.
Clinton however has stated she wants to make America fair again by ending the insanity of trickle down..... !!!
BTW: Why isn't the media indicating which candidate Putin is trying to put in power with the voting machine hacks? We'd certainly hear all about it if Clinton was his chioce...!
Thom, you're right on the money - or lack of money. All modern modes of transportation - even outomobiles - have or are moving towards autopilot, except the OLDEST one, railroads. Yet, they have had electrical signaling for over 100 years, it just hasn't made the jump INTO the train itself. There's no excuse for holding PTC back anymore.
There is no real need for states (or even local communities) to depend on revenue sharing from the Federal government to fund the cost of infrastructure. Years ago I heard a one-time deputy mayor of New York City named Phil Findelstein give a speech on how any city could raise the revenue needed and even reduce those taxes that impose heavy deadweight losses on an economy. He said that taxes should be greatly reduced or eliminated on property improvements, on sales of goods and services and even on income derived from wages. What he told the audience was simple. What communities have to offer is a location, and the values of locations are based on both natural advantages (e.g., an excellent harbor, moderate weather, nearness to recreational areas, etc.) and human-created advantages associated with infrastructure and cultural amenities. Every location (i.e., every parcel or tract of land) has some potential annual rental value as determined by market forces. This value is not created by what any individual owner does or does not do to improve the location held. If only communities would collect this value, the result would be to eliminate the potential to profit from hoarding land or speculating in land rather than bringing land to its highest, best use. Economists who understand the economics of taxation and how land markets operate estimate that "location rent" comprises as much as one-third of GDP. In short, changing the way government raises revenue by moving to a land-only property tax base would provide a huge fund from which infrastructure improvements could be easily paid for.
The way stuff works it will take decades to make any change whatsoever...shame!
My local bureaucracy tells me I'm not sick enough or poor enough to receive any assistance
I have a serious compression fracture of the lumbar spine since 1968, I'm white and have no money
What chance any of our bought and paid for shill, fascist politicos have an ear for this serious question of saving the world from our own folly???
Plant trees and vote third party anyway. If we cannot kick out the poor excuse for a congress we have at present we are doomed.
Considering the positive feedback loops which are self-perpetuating by definition, meaning that it's getting progressively warmer on its own now, why does anyone think there's anything that can be done to stop climate change?
Humans were't around then.
One big difference is that the rate of change was much slower then, and life could adapt to it.
Earth will survive. Whether we will, or many other forms of life, is another matter. There have been several big extinctions, and it took a long time for much of that life to be replaced by other species.
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-human...
Let’s Hear about POLICIES
{… a limerick …}
Would were the media to switch
from focus on The Donald’s kitsch
{on his stuff ever Worse
from his vile universe}
to good policies which Democrats pitch.
==============================
What is{are} Trump’s Problem{s}?
{- - - a Rhyme and an Image - - -}
Is his face so orange from some kind of disease? …
… maybe it’s an itching case of scabies?
His angry outbursts his staff can’t appease. -
… maybe his tummy’s like a colicky baby’s?
His mouth foams furiously. HOLY GEEZ!! …
… maybe he’s got a case of rabies?
- - - Image:
http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/nonprofitentrepreneur/files/2016/03/Donald-Trump-Angry.jpg
=================================
When I was a little boy and listening to my mother and father discussing Darwin, during my father's studies to become ordained as a Protestant minister, my father took me to the Mammoth Cave in Kentucky and also the the coal mine pits spotted throughout our southern Indiana counties. In both instances there were many feet of limestone covering the coal layer or beneath the coal seams. Dad showed my the small crustacean shells and skeletons of animals that had inhabited the oceans many millions of years ago. Later I climbed down into the Grand Canyon whee some of the layers of limestone are 400 feet or so thick. It should be obvious to the casual observer that during the times of such limestone layers being laid down that the carbon dioxide concentration nut have been pretty high. The earth recovered and mankind developed. Explain this to me so I can understand it.
The Browbeater Tweets
{… a limerick …}
Vigorously doth he tweet,
and derisively the pundits repeat.
The Trumpster ain’t sweet; -
- this’ll cause his defeat.
Too much doth The Donald browbeat.
=============================
Your Rightist panelists tend to violate the mood of “discussion”, thereby diminishing your show’s quality. I fast-forward through such segments, or change to another news-website.
This kind of leading can be infectious to health. There should be proper protection for nurses so as to stay away form the diseases like ebola. Medical uniforms or scrubs and other sources should be provides to nurses in the medical industry as they serve people, which will prevent them. The mask also should be provided for cetain healthcare issues.
timallard - the reply obviously didn't... sorry!
As a layman your facts and figures appear incredible
I do not doubt intention
But, may I ask where is this information gathered from?
As a layman your facts and figures appear incredible
I do not doubt intention
But, may I ask where is this information gathered from?
Stecoop01 - who said that then?
"Thou shall have dominion over the Earth and all the creatures there on."
That line, from Christian theology (mythology?), was a death sentence for Mother Earth.
The issue is called the aragonite saturation point, where calcium-carbonate shells start dissolving the pH globally to do this 7.9, we dropped pH -0.1 or 30% from 8.2 and the negative rate is increasing.
Within 60-years all Alaskan waters will be at or below this saturation point, today the Beaufort Sea is at unity and already showing damage to pteropod populations.
It's not just acidity also loss of multi-year 4-9 year-old sea-ice affecting seasonal changes to species with less ice and more light below that now support more plankton below the melt ponds than before ["ARCUS D.C. Arctic Research Seminar Series - 31 March 2016";55:33; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1kq7I3X5SY].
Atmospheric CO2 off the Washington coast right now is 399.5, ocean is 279.6 a forcing of 119.9-ppm and they should be close to the same to not acidify for shellfish, this is real-time from the Cape Elizabeth platform: http://nvs.nanoos.org/ShellfishGrowers
Ending emissions is the ONLY way to reduce the forcing and slow the acidification which is 10-times faster than a mass-extinction, the long talk on ocean acidification [ "ICES ASC 2013 plenary lecture by Dr Richard Feely"; 1:01:08; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etFob9Wy45E].
Our global problem is like this, a full glacial cycle takes 100,000-years and CO2 varies 100-ppm, from 180-280-ppm.
During all those ice-ages the maximum CO2 was 305±5-ppm, ok, we passed that about 1916 and since then added 100-ppm !!
That's a glacial cycle in only 100-years and it's all ABOVE the highest CO2 value ever reached in a million years, acidifying the oceans 10-times faster than an extinction event.
We must exit the Steam Age for electrons, most grid power is for thermal end-uses not electricity so to switch will only take 5-years, maybe 2-months if it was a war.
Mankinds Greed & short sightedness will Destroy the planet ! Out of control population growth will waste earths precious natural resources ! GOP will NOT pass ANY regulations to stop this disaster ! After all Its all about keeping the ruling class / billionaires Happy..NO matter the human cost ! Much of world is poor, uneducated, without clean water or sanitation. Most importantly, women lack access to birth control . Men in these countries keep it that way ! Educate women and the entire village, tribe benefits . Micro loans help small business's flourish.. women gain confidence , they educate their children and so it goes...
I think that even progressive talk shows and progressive candidates give short shrift to the plight of all the other species that weave the world together for us. When I call in to "progressive" shows, I do not get the back and forth dialogue that others get if they are talking about black lives matter or Donald Trump or Hillary - I get to say a bit about some horror slaughterhouse of tame or wild animals and "thank you for your comment".
We need to move to a plant - based diet. If the World Watch Institute is correct that 52% of climate change is caused by animal agriculture, one would not know it from talking to 350.org folks even. Cutting out toxic carcasses from our diet is a no brainer on every level - but still a taboo topic for non-profits and even Bill McKibben yet it could empower every citizen ( lacking government leadership ) to act immediately to mitigate climate change.
Right now in Wisconsin, 5,000 black bears, mostly cubs less than a year and a half old are being murdered with packs of dogs ripping them apart to add to the "fun" - one and a half times the number of people killed in 9/11 but we are such an arrogant animal species that this is not considered genocide? Ocean destruction of large mammals not considered genocide. Primates still experimented on in universities? Slaughterhouses with 65 billion farm animals deliberately raised for slaughter taking out rainforests to feed them all over the globe. What insanity that we do not talk about this at every opportunity to educate a disengaged and disenfranchised public citizenry.
New Trump Hat: MAKE WOMEN THIN AGAIN!
Circa 1960, I noticed that far-rightist John Birchers were deploying Tocqueville as part of the pedigree behind their notion that Lefties tend “communistic”-etc. F’rinstance: the quote re “… an immense and tutelary power ....”, about which Your take is more on-point. Seems clear to me that such “immense and tutelary power” is a feature of our Plutocratic-flavored Fascism {ie, fits into Trumpismo}.
Thom,
I agree with your assertion 100%.
The neo-libcon ideology of Mises, Hayek, the Austrian School of Economics, Ayn Rand, and the Chicago School of Economics under Friedman are at the base of the destruction of "Democratic rule" and economics for humanity.
Through "Think Tanks" and government collusion with the corporate and economic elite, the ideological attack on the social structure of societies and the foundations of democracy have found their way into the mainstream of North America.
After sponsoring individuals in "Third World Countries", during the 50's and 60's, with natural resources to attend the "Chicago School of Economics" under the direct tutilege of Milton Friedman, these converted apparatchiks returned to their native countries where they quietly rose in political power and created "new" government economic and social regulations; ready to be imposed with a US backed military coup, ie: Chile, etc.
The austerity applied to those citizens has refined itself into the non-military apostasy of Constitutional Democracy by deceptively conflating their neo-libcon "Fascist" ideology on ethical democratic economics by turning our "Use Value" economic system into the speculative greed of "Exchange Value" only system which is responsible for the obscene "Wealth Gap".
It is adherence to this skewed ideological precept that has hollowed out our social and democratic pillars through the belief of "Commodification, monetisation and privatisation of "EVERYTHING"! In the minds of power hungry, sociopathic narcissists, this is their license to ignore centuries of Humanist growth and laws respecting the "RIGHTS of MAN". In the Charter of the Forest- (1217), The Charter specifically states that "Henceforth every freeman, in his wood or on his land that he has in the forest, may with impunity make a mill, fish-preserve, pond, marl-pit, ditch, or arable in cultivated land outside coverts, provided that no injury is thereby given to any neighbour."
This was the first law for the Rights of Humans against the totalitarianism of the Barons, Earls and Kings
This neo-libcon ideology is a poisonous anathema to the hard fought "Rights for Civilians and the general welfare of society". As we are witnessing, the voice of the people has been bought out by the elite; the environment that sustains human life has proven to mean nothing to these greedy despoilers; the Civil Rights of Taxpayers are bulldozed by "The Rule of Law" which is nothing but a usurpation of our civil law through an undemocratic government-corporate collusion upheld by the "IMPS" who were taught to see the "Price of everything and the Value of Nothing"!!!
I agree with the TxPeon above. We will only prosecute the banksters when we get money OUT of gov't. Certainly not, as long as the Oligarchs of Corporatocracy, of the GOP, in particular, are in congress. The DNC is not much better, but the Progressive wing begins to see the light of the peoples' eyes on the truth. The people are more enlightened because of Senator Bernie Sanders's campaign. Now, we need Sen. Eliz. Warren to be Sectretary of the Treasury and for all the people to press the corruption of Wall St. up against the wall with regulations. Hopefully, Trump will have destroyed the insanely corrupt GOP by Nov. 8th and hopefully, Sec. Clinton has seen the light that Bernie shined on truth to expose the Banksters and her closeness to Wall St. We have to hope, because CLIMATE CRISIS CATASTROPHE is headed our way shortly, and the future of life on this planet is hotly at stake NOW. We are barreling down on Climate Catastrophe and a Sixth Extinction like a speeding train with brakes gone foul. TO SAVE EVERYTHING WE NEED EVERYONE, NOW! Watch www.GreenWorldRising.org. ONLY the political will is lacking to save civilization, and our beloved children, but millions care and are aware, especially Thom Hartmann, Leonardo DiCaprio, Bill McKibben, Rev. Yearwood of the Hip Hop Nation, Black Lives Matter, and our brave Native Ameicans at the Dakota Access Pipeline WATER & LAND PROTECTION ACTION and the millenials who were for Bernie, but now should be pragmatic like Bernie & vote Clinton so we can continue The Peoples Political Revolution. With Trump we'd have a Police State with no recourse to protest without be shot or arrested. Support our Native Sioux & other tribal nations in Dakota & elsewhere! It's better to light one candle than rage against the darkness. Get out & StopTrump!
Editor: http://www.eco-poetry.org/climate_crisis-is-here.html
Or, while waiting for Positive Train Control, simply hire another engineer to ride along in the cab and take over when the regular engineer is distracted or disabled. We'd increase the number of jobs and add another potential home owner and tax payer.
Obviously the Bush tax cuts are part of the Reagan trickle down swindle/ideology, and one stat I was able to dig up indicates that just from 2001-2010 these cuts ended up costing the treasury 2.5 trillion. That's a lot of infrastructure money that wasn't! During that same time period a massive number of jobs went overseas and we had a economic crash.....that's trickle down.
Yet here we are in 2016 with the Trump/Ryan team wanting to keep America down again with that same old trickle down economy.
Clinton however has stated she wants to make America fair again by ending the insanity of trickle down..... !!!
BTW: Why isn't the media indicating which candidate Putin is trying to put in power with the voting machine hacks? We'd certainly hear all about it if Clinton was his chioce...!
Thom, you're right on the money - or lack of money. All modern modes of transportation - even outomobiles - have or are moving towards autopilot, except the OLDEST one, railroads. Yet, they have had electrical signaling for over 100 years, it just hasn't made the jump INTO the train itself. There's no excuse for holding PTC back anymore.
There is no real need for states (or even local communities) to depend on revenue sharing from the Federal government to fund the cost of infrastructure. Years ago I heard a one-time deputy mayor of New York City named Phil Findelstein give a speech on how any city could raise the revenue needed and even reduce those taxes that impose heavy deadweight losses on an economy. He said that taxes should be greatly reduced or eliminated on property improvements, on sales of goods and services and even on income derived from wages. What he told the audience was simple. What communities have to offer is a location, and the values of locations are based on both natural advantages (e.g., an excellent harbor, moderate weather, nearness to recreational areas, etc.) and human-created advantages associated with infrastructure and cultural amenities. Every location (i.e., every parcel or tract of land) has some potential annual rental value as determined by market forces. This value is not created by what any individual owner does or does not do to improve the location held. If only communities would collect this value, the result would be to eliminate the potential to profit from hoarding land or speculating in land rather than bringing land to its highest, best use. Economists who understand the economics of taxation and how land markets operate estimate that "location rent" comprises as much as one-third of GDP. In short, changing the way government raises revenue by moving to a land-only property tax base would provide a huge fund from which infrastructure improvements could be easily paid for.
Edward J. Dodson, M.L.A. / Director / School of Cooperative Individualism / www.cooperative-individualism.org