Recent comments
ADHD: Hunter in a Farmer's World
Thom Hartmann has written a dozen books covering ADD / ADHD - Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder.
Join Thom for his new twice-weekly email newsletters on ADHD, whether it affects you or a member of your family.
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
By webmaster
Hello All
Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.
Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.
Hey stud, did I hear you out in the pasture this morning screeching at the sky?
How would you know what rational sounds like?
I can see here on this board comprised of a bunch of malcontent leftie/socialists there is no way to compare the three mainstream networks coverage, the minor network coverage, the late night shows, the printed press, radio talking bobbleheads, and thousands of fools donning their pink pussy hats and marching while screaming into the sky so I will leave it at that. We see it differently.
I will say, I only usually listen to the first hour of so of Thoms show and I believe it is the first show I have listened to in years where he didn't sound bitter, angry, and reference Reagan, guns, or how we should have never put any money in the stock market.
Good on you Thom, you sounded almost rational for a change.
Yes, the Republican response to the election of Obama was so gracious. Especially the birther-bigot nut that Republicans elected as their President…The Republicans that made posters portraying Barak and Michelle as a monkeys…The key Republicans that met in a D.C. Restaurant at the very moment of Obama's inauguration, plotting to oppose and resist at every turn the new administration and promising to make him a one term president.
Yes, the Republicans really know how to roll out the welcome mat. Give me a fuckin' break!!!
@#28 Which is why private schools exist.
Do not forget Diane that your public schools are a socialistic organization.
Congratulations on your wins and do take note of the fact you will see few if any "he's not my governor" bullshit coming from the right side. We tend to be a bit more gracious when we lose which is why I enjoy the leftie/socialists giving me Christmas morning sooo much.
BTW, in my district the socialist leaning school board members are no longer there, all replaced by a couple of moderate democrats and a fairly conservative republican. All three saw the failures of the last election where the school district dropped from 9th in the state to 26th in just two years. Congratulations to them also.
Dit, dit, dit. Dit, dit, dit. This just in: Trumpism thoroughly rejected by voters in Tuesday's elections.
I am celebrating that our school board election went Democratic in a heavily Republican County yesterday. 60%. Puts and end to our schools decline and will help with the property taxes.People realized what Republican control does. I can hardly wait for the congressional election next year.
Also congratulations to NJ and VA on their new Democratic Governors.
Outback, the gun/crime issue is simple. 10+
You use a gun in the commission of a crime, you get ten years for sure, then your sentence for the crime you committed is added. No excuses, no plea bargains, no nothing. Keep appointing judges Mr. President.
Oh! don't forget kids,
Today is the day for the biggest Christmas present ever.
Hep: I didn't expect you to get my comment...I never I have clue of what your trying to say either.
@#1 Gloria
Thank you for bringing up the massacre in Lubys Cafe in Killeen TX in 1991.
You are correct it was horrific but you have your facts wrong on Texas firearms laws in in 1991. They were much stricter then as this survivor will explain. She will also educate you on how fast a committed shooter can reload a firearm and continue killing. Her testimony in congress was informative and heartbreaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sEYGcXSmpQ&feature=youtu.be
HotCoffee. Ha! Post #18 was actually a really interesting Wiki-read with lots of good info. Thanks. I put that on my list of rabbit holes to go down later.
In post #20, your pithy introductory remark followed by copying and pasting an entire article about some random collection of anecdotal stories, albeit curious, doesn't really demonstrate a larger pattern one way or the other (like black and white snow on an outdated cathode ray tube searching for a nonexistent signal).
Though I dare say, Madame, it sure do seem like yer callin' for a whole heap o' new regulaSHUNS to clamp down on all that wicked behavior and all those nefarious deeds. Shame!
BTW, gun-free zones are largely local decisions that communities deem necessary to save lives, because so many of their sons and daughters are being gunned down senselessly. In places like Chicago, OF COOOURSE they are going to be hard to enforce with illegal guns flooding in from all directions ...from gun-NON-free zones ...like the rest of the great big gawdamn Younited States a' Meerkkka! GUNS-GUNS-GUNS! USA-USA-USA! (Helluva tourist slogan!)
But, skipping back (whoopie) to the first rabbit hole for a moment, I still don't see many significant parallels between The Prohibition of the early 20th century and today's weapons-of-war-control debate, which could lead to sensible legislation that could potentially save tens of thousands of precious lives going into the future.
Different issues, different times, different circumstances, different politics, different everything except the word "BAN" -- as in ban focking military assault weapons from civilian markets!
1. An alcoholic beverage ain't no military assault weapon.
2. Moonshiners in the backwoods ain't gonna cook up no batch of military assault weapons in their bathtub.
3. We ain't seen no massive blackmarket of Tommy Guns and cannons, banned from the streets last century, arisin' up outta the right-wing swamp and sweeping the land faster 'n isotopes of hydrogen fusing in a thermonuclear bomb ...or a Trump tweet.
By definition, far-reaching analogies usually don't match outside reality, especially slippery-slope extrapolations, which can be used to argue, rather superficially, in the contrary on any topic whatsoever, you name it.
But all interesting stuff ...gittin curiouser and curiouser.
Here is a nice gun free zone.
(CBS) — They are young and armed — thieves on the prowl. Their target? Salons and massage spas in Chicago.
As CBS 2’s Suzanne Le Mignot reports, surveillance video is proving quite helpful.
Two teens, wearing hoods, enter Happy Feet massage spa in Norwood Park. They go straight to the front desk and start taking money. The receptionist calls out for the owner. When she enters the room, one of the teens pulls a gun on her.
“I say, ‘OK. You can take everything,’” the owner tells CBS 2’s Suzanne Le Mignot. “I’m so scared.”
After holding the owner at gunpoint, one of the teens enters the back laundry room and takes money from a purse. He heads to the front, with a worker’s bag in hand. Then, both teens leave.
Sources say the armed robbery inside Happy Feet massage spa was one of about a dozen that took place in Chicago in just the past month.
Chicago isn’t alone. Similar crimes committed by teens have occurred in Northbrook, Gurnee, Highland Park and Waukegan.
In some cases, there have been two people who enter. In others, as many as seven have swarmed business, robbing workers and sometimes customers.
Police in Gurnee and Northbrook say they’ve arrested a total of four suspects so far. Chicago police say detectives are looking at patterns in the cases.
video here
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/11/06/teen-robbery-ring-hits-spas/
So 7 teens with guns...didn'tbuy them at the gun shop...where did they get them...not from law abiding citizens,
Cool! A good guy with a gun took out a bad guy with a gun -- just like in the movies, by gawd! Not so cool: he's the exception that proves the rule.
It's a very rare occurance in real life, lIke waterboarding producing actionable intelligence. Why else is the right-wing so out of breath harping about it? Because it hardly ever happens! "But who cares about objective reality; it happens in the movies all the time, so it's gotta be true. Besides, that's what the NRA, the arbiter of truth, told me."
But why did the bad guy have a gun in the first place? What, 59 concert-goers and 26 church-goers are just ...gone? Collateral damage in the war to protect the right of two homegrown white male abusers of women to spray trapped, helpless crowds with military assault rifles and copious amounts of clips and ammo?
Whew! At least they weren't Muslim. Ivanka might have orchestrated another pointless missile strike in the Middle East. "How many cruise missiles and MOABS we got left, Daddy?"
Thom's got this right; the nation needs to focus on the victims instead of the self-dealing arguments framed by the gun lobby, which only ensure that escalating violence parallels escalating profits.
If we had a mainstream media that actually reported raw news without endless corporate spin, the victims' horrific stories would have, if not more, at least equal billing as the "good guy with a gun" story.
Just like war footage, perhaps if overly pampered Americans smelled the cordite and copper, so to speak, and relived the blood-and-guts carnage in every gory detail 24/7 ad nauseam (just like the survivors do for the rest of their lives), then perhaps mass shootings -- and war -- would be just as rare as "a good guy with a gun shooting a bad guy with a gun" in just the right place at the right time.
May God bless him and show mercy for all who perished.
Organized crime
Organized crime received a major boost from Prohibition. Mafia groups limited their activities to prostitution, gambling, and theft until 1920, when organized bootlegging emerged in response to Prohibition.[115] A profitable, often violent, black market for alcohol flourished. Prohibition provided a financial basis for organized crime to flourish.[116]
In a study of more than 30 major U.S. cities during the Prohibition years of 1920 and 1921, the number of crimes increased by 24%. Additionally, theft and burglaries increased by 9%, homicides by 12.7%, assaults and battery rose by 13%, drug addiction by 44.6%, and police department costs rose by 11.4%. This was largely the result of "black-market violence" and the diversion of law enforcement resources elsewhere. Despite the Prohibition movement's hope that outlawing alcohol would reduce crime, the reality was that the Volstead Act led to higher crime rates than were experienced prior to Prohibition and the establishment of a black market dominated by criminal organizations.[117] The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre produced seven deaths, considered one of the deadliest days of mob history.[118] A 2016 NBER paper showed that South Carolina counties that enacted and enforced prohibition had homicide rates increase by about 30 to 60 percent relative to counties that did not enforce prohibition.[119]
Furthermore, stronger liquor surged in popularity because its potency made it more profitable to smuggle. To prevent bootleggers from using industrial ethyl alcohol to produce illegal beverages, the federal government ordered the poisoning of industrial alcohols. In response, bootleggers hired chemists who successfully renatured the alcohol to make it drinkable. As a response, the Treasury Department required manufacturers to add more deadly poisons, including the particularly deadly methyl alcohol. New York City medical examiners prominently opposed these policies because of the danger to human life. As many as 10,000 people died from drinking denatured alcohol before Prohibition ended.[120] New York City medical examiner Charles Norris believed the government took responsibility for murder when they knew the poison was not deterring people and they continued to poison industrial alcohol (which would be used in drinking alcohol) anyway. Norris remarked: "The government knows it is not stopping drinking by putting poison in alcohol... [Y]et it continues its poisoning processes, heedless of the fact that people determined to drink are daily absorbing that poison. Knowing this to be true, the United States government must be charged with the moral responsibility for the deaths that poisoned liquor causes, although it cannot be held legally responsible."[120]
Al Capone, the Prohibition-era leader of organized crime in Chicago.
Another lethal substance that was often substituted for alcohol was "canned heat", also commonly known as Sterno. Forcing the substance through a makeshift filter, such as a handkerchief, created a rough liquor substitute; however, the result was poisonous, though not often lethal. Many of those who were poisoned as a result united to sue the government for reparations after the end of Prohibition.[121]
Making alcohol at home was very common during Prohibition. Stores sold grape concentrate with warning labels that listed the steps that should be avoided to prevent the juice from fermenting into wine. Some drugstores sold "medical wine" with around a 22% alcohol content. In order to justify the sale, the wine was given a medicinal taste.[121] Home-distilled hard liquor was called bathtub gin in northern cities, and moonshine in rural areas of Virginia, Kentucky, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Tennessee. Homebrewing good hard liquor was easier than brewing good beer.[121] Since selling privately distilled alcohol was illegal and bypassed government taxation, law enforcement officers relentlessly pursued manufacturers.[122] In response, bootleggers modified their cars and trucks by enhancing the engines and suspensions to make faster vehicles that, they presumed, would improve their chances of outrunning and escaping agents of the Bureau of Prohibition, commonly called "revenue agents" or "revenuers". These cars became known as "moonshine runners" or "'shine runners".[123] Shops were also known to participate in the underground liquor market, by loading their stocks with ingredients for liquors, including bénédictine, vermouth, scotch mash, and even ethyl alcohol, which anyone could purchase legally.[124]
Prohibition also had an effect on the music industry in the United States, specifically with jazz. Speakeasies became very popular, and the Great Depression's migratory effects led to the dispersal of jazz music, from New Orleans going north through Chicago and to New York. This led to the development of different styles in different cities. Due to its popularity in speakeasies and the emergence of advanced recording technology, jazz's popularity skyrocketed. It was also at the forefront of the minimal integration efforts going on at the time, as it united mostly black musicians with mostly white audiences.[125]
Along with other economic effects, the enactment and enforcement of Prohibition caused an increase in resource costs. During the 1920s the annual budget of the Bureau of Prohibition went from $4.4 million to $13.4 million. Additionally, the U.S. Coast Guard spent an average of $13 million annually on enforcement of prohibition laws.[126] These numbers do not take into account the costs to local and state governments.
When Prohibition was repealed in 1933, many bootleggers and suppliers simply moved into the legitimate liquor business. Some crime syndicates moved their efforts into expanding their protection rackets to cover legal liquor sales and other business areas.[127]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#Organized...
When they pass drug laws...think MMJ, Prohibition,...they create a black market...then only criminals can buy and sell guns.
Why would anyone want a gun mafia?
The nanny state will not keep you safe.
Many people in this country live a hour or more drive from a police station.
Geez I live a hour away from a cell phone tower.
Yes, deepspace, Dr Strangelove was pretty much on the money.
Your comment about life experiences shaping our views is well taken. From your previous postings I sense that each of us has a similar background; military experience for example, and an upbringing that was fairly open and unfettered where it comes to these hot button issues.
If you want a glimpse into the way I see things shaping up, I'll name another movie, which is "The Postman", with Kevin Costner. Hokey for sure (it is after all a Kevin Costner movie) but I believe in ways quite prophetic. The setting is post WW3 and the survivors have retreated into small, self sustaining communities. I see this scenario as the most likely outcome of a world that has gone nuts. If you haven't seen it, I recommend you rent it.
Thanks for your reply and ongoing thoughtful commentary.
I think the nightly news should have a "counter" every night of how many people were killed by a gun that day. Or, maybe we could make a quilt for each victim and spread them over the lawn on the National Mall in Washington D.C. We need to do something visual to "show" people how many we lose every day to guns. The NRA was able to get their puppet congressman to outlaw any scientific research into the problem. I think a counter that is constantly tracking the numbers might get people thinking.
It seems that fear and false accusations/information have fueled the Country into owning too many guns. Were #1 in the world in gun profits, guns, and death.
#9 - You just quite graphically outlined the problem with mindset
It's okay to to have a gun without any excuse, need or requirement
(for some weird reason)
Result... death simply because weapons are available to any jerk planning for a killing
The blasted facility is there for humans to be killed
Do you not realise that gun deaths are highest in America?
A population where there happens to be almost one gun for every human in the country
Are you blind?
Outback. Reasonable arguments and well presented. We've gone a few rounds on this before and I largely can't disagree with too much of what you say. We're probably from the same general neck of the woods or thereabouts, own guns, and no doubt have heard every argument for and against. Right? Haha, that's why bouncers don't let guns into bars.
No use raking the coals needlessly. Everyone has their own life experiences that change them in different ways, and this issue is one of the most devisive, not only on the wider political and cultural stage but on a very personal level.
We'll likely always disagree the most over the wild proliferation of military-grade assault weapons in every nook and cranny of our quasi-civilian streets (my discriptors). But you're absolutely right about the bigger picture; there's a much more ominous story to tell about humankind's penchant for violence on a scale unthinkable until now -- destruction that could end most life on Earth.
Violence is interwoven into our very nature as beings forced to evolve or die on this very beautiful and bountiful but very brutal planet. "Mother Nature is a harsh mistress indeed," yet somehow we thrived and multiplied.
Therein lies the dilemma. The one aspect of our collective behavior that has allowed us to "conquer" the environment is now destroying it, as well as everything that depends on it, including us.
And another crazy man has his itchy finger on the trigger -- of the biggest gun of all!
Duck and cover and kiss yer ass goodbye! The movie, "Dr. Strangelove," is eerily foreboding.
I'm still amazed at the rightie uproar over a peacful display of our First Amendment, "taking a knee," and the rightie numbnuttedness in sanctifying our Second Amendment. Give me a freaking break!
Why does rational human living in the 21st century need a gun?
#5 - Look into the reason The Founders required gun ownership
Looks to me they had a need because there was no standing army
And, now the prevailing belief is that owning a gun is a blasted "right"