Reply to #2: rithrockmorton, I respectfully disagree. Republicans and corporate Democrats together have destroyed this country; Republicans didn’t do all that damage by themselves. It wasn’t a Republican who ushered in NAFTA and began offshoring all manufacturing jobs in this country; it wasn’t a Republican who repealed Glass Steagall, or consolidated our media so that it morphed into the corporate fascist freak show we have today. Those were some of the most destructive policies inflicted on us and our society, and we've got Clinton #1 to thank for all of it.

I have never voted for a Republican in my entire adult life. And as of this election, I will never cast another vote for a corporate fucking Democrat. Eight years of Obama’s bullshit has been the last bloody straw for me.

On another topic brought up by Thom, I think this whole holiday shopping mania thing is stupid.

I love getting together with friends and family, feasting together... but since my teens, have had a take-it-or-leave it attitude about gifts. It's always fun to get a gift for someone when you know what that person likes, and you happen to stumble upon the perfect thing for him or her... But all this obligatory shopping is just a waste of time and money in my opinion. Doing each other's shopping is just plain stupid.

When I was a kid it was about getting new TOYS. All about the toys. What kid doesn't love new toys?! But once I'd outgrown my craving for toys, I completely lost interest in gifts. And that's the part that makes the holiday season such a commercial goddam racket. What a silly way to celebrate the birth of a socialist and spiritual leader who owned only the clothes on his back, and would give away even that to someone who needed it.

Equating Hillary to any Republican is doing an extreme disservice to logic and experience. Republicans have nearly destroyed this country and one more in the White House will certainly complete the job. There isn't one among the Republican candidates that one can point to that would be anywhere near as competent as Hillary. I for one would love to see a return to the country that Bill handed off to the cheerleader President, GWB.

To put it simply republicans are obviously not able to govern without being told what, how, and when to do something. Problem is they are letting the wrong folks lead them around by the nose. They should be embarrased but aren't sharp enough to realize just how simple they really look to those around them.

Anybody know where wolfhowl is getting his fears? I haven't heard Thom or Bernie propose confiscation of guns from anyone other than through due process of law in a criminal case, and I don't think they've actually mentioned that.

Blame’s Brunt

{a limerick}

Disasters on many a front

from Rightists’ too many a stunt.

My assessment is blunt: -

- they carry blame’s brunt

who side-track when for solutions we hunt.

===================================

Extreme concentration of wealth leads to extreme concentration of power. It's pretty simple, money equates to power, always has.

Thus when a government allows individuals to amass billions in wealth, that government has put itself in a position highly vulnerable to a Fascist overthrow, like the one we have experienced. The key here is having enough money to control the message, which the Fascists have done an excellent job with....they control almost our entire media. Other than the entertainment that's used to distract the easily distracted, the political content is almost entirely extreme right wing propaganda.

So what I consider un-american is the lack of taxation and financial regulation which is needed to keep Fascists like Trumpet from amassing billions. Let guys like him simply focus on the purchase of their next trophy woman, instead of the purchase and overthrow of our democracy.

Thom, I am unsubscribing from your list because you have gone from being a thinking man to being a shill for the mainstream liberal agenda. I think that "Last Days of Ancient Sunlight" is the most important thing you ever did. About all I agree with you about these days is your support of Bernie, who will be our next president, and enviromental issues. One thing I disagree with both you and Bernie about is gun control. Like many ol' country boys of my generation I appreciate my constitutional right to be armed to protect my family and country, and will not give up that right under any circumstances!

We have evolved into a "kick ass" society. Candidates are coached to talk tough because currently, that attitude seems to be popular. Makes you wonder who they really are, or what they will be told to do once elected.

If you are looking to the animal world as a model for successful human society , at least pick the long term evolutionary winners:

the social insects.

See no sign of democracy in their societies, societies that have thrived for millions of years.

But do see lessons we could learn.

ct

Hep because of the dollar exchange we are over $50.00 / barrel CAN. Penalty of money for us. My point is it took seven years just for the government to say no on Keystone. What company would be willing to go through that, when the can go overseas and get a permit in a week. That goes for all industry, not just the energy sector. I am just saying there is a price to pay for going green. Most people think it's worth it. I am sure they are right, but don't bitch when you have no well paying jobs from resource based business. You chased them away.

Hep. A perfect example is Keystone, the Alberta "oil sands" 70 % of Americans, congress and the senate would rather have Canadian oil then oil from Venusuala but because of political pressure not logic Obama said no. There has been 30,000 lay offs in the oil industry in Alberta. These people are not working at Walmart or McDonalds they are engineers, geologist and highly paid service workers. For those of you who say who cares they are Canadian, these are mostly American owned Companies and there is over 100,000 Americans working in Alberta in the energy industry. Not to mention the billions of dollars of cancelled projects, Shell alone cancelled one that is two billion dollars. It is all welders, electricians, etc. All high paying Union jobs not just to build it but yo maintain it. And what about the pipeline, look at all of the jobs gone from that. Now factor in our new carbon taxes, or cap and trade other countries don't have. How do we compete with them with one hand tied beside our back. I could go on for ever. Look at the steel, coal,and earth metal industries. The are almost extinct. If you believe in global warming then you know these things must be done. But then do not complain that our standard of living is falling. What do you expect.

Currently, we all depend on a broken system of "representative democracy". We give our power away to someone else every time we vote. It remarkable really. When we exercise our power over government peacefully to govern collectively, I believe the majority will govern wisely and with compassion. How can that happen?

Currently, there is no mechanism for a national vote. I would argue because the framers wanted to retain power in a strong central government, which would protect property owners. There are other reasons.

The crisis of governance is our own making. We have become dependent on a system which no longer represents us, thereby avoiding the more difficult work of improving our political system together. We citizens need to upgrade our operating system.

Technology makes communication pretty easy. You and I can collaborate whereas that would have been nearly impossible a few decades ago. We should not dismiss this development lightly.

The revolution will begin when you and I, our friends and family, the majority of citizens, participate in the process of building a better political system. When you see what that requires, I hope you will be encouraged to get involved. Now is the time.

thanks for the dialog.

John

http://www.thenationalreferendum.org/proposed-laws-amendments/