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Trump claims that 3 to 5 million illegal aliens voted illegally for Hillary thus giving her the popular vote. We should have a total recount or overturn the election and have another one. This is based on his statements.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/trump-calls-for-major-investigati...
The left, and even more so leftie/socialists, are going to be facing conflicts and confusion with this non Republican in the oval office.
Todays conundrum will be President Trumps support for the Keystone pipeline BUT, it will be constructed with all American steel. Now there is a real panty twister.
Deepspace sez; "Now, c'mon, you crooked little troll; be real for once. Don't lie with a straight face, with that big twelve-incher stuck in your avatar's mouth. Be intellectually honest.
Otherwise, just go away and troll elsewhere. Or, like Stopgap advised, at least come out of the closet and quit hating yourself. :--(("
First off, how can you tell anybody not to lie with a straight face? Ever look in the mirror Mr. Ed?
Secondly, give us a bit more information. I sense a lot of sexual tension on your part toward Ou812. You also seem to exhibit a lot of homophobia. Is that just a mask?
Lastly, accusing others of "clogging up this forum". You just typed 713 words of pure blithering rant. Who actually clogs up this forum?
Back on topic. Trump has to walk carefully with respect to a potential trade war with china. During the last eight years Obama gave away or closed most if not all our ability to produce the chips needed to further our manufacturing capability. Correcting that terrible mistake should precede any serious trade conflicts with China.
You ask?
Should they work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals?
Or would that legitimize a President who - regardless of what he says about the TPP - still poses a serious threat to American workers and American democracy?
Answer: Of course we work with Trump to help achieve one of their most important policy goals. Trade/Tax policies for the last 40 years is propbably the number ONE job killer in the USA. If We (Democrats) don't, we will be no better than the scum bag obstructionist right wing RepubliCONS who did every thing in their power to stop Barack Obama from succeeding. They failed.........thank god! But the Democrats need to be involved in the process in order to have some input to ensure we don't get trade policies that are even worst than what we already have for American workers. You know the CON MEN THUG Banksters on Wall Street will have etheir filthy greedy hands in on the deals looking to screw 99% of the American work force as much as they can to FEED THEIR treasonous GREEDY Behavior!
Initially, I had the impression the TPP was supposed to level the playing field economically, so more people and countries could participate in, contribute to, and (hopefully) benefit from the global economy ... this would be an effort to balance the coin, internationally, so a broad range of nations could participate as independent equals rather than slaves to insurmountable debt to the world bank and domination by western powers ... ((at least, that's how I heard it.))
Now, who would stand to lose, or gain from such an arrangement?
I would say, all told, too many people in too many places to count.
... or control ...
So, what kind of dragon-slaying solutions come to mind?
That sovereignty question started out as a provision to enable First Nations groups to negotiate their rights with a stubbornly obstructive government ((back when it was called a "... Treaty" - and that would give precedence to sovereign rights - which is why congress changed the name to "... Agreement". Ha-ha!!))
Apparently, nothing was final, and it was supposed to have something in it for everyone, though, clearly, not everyone would accept it as written, so it would wind up in court, for years ... short story, job security for the legal profession ...?
It looks like "the people" want simpler solutions.
Right this minute, I'm concerned about life-water protectors at Standing Rock, and other locations that have been named, but not mentioned ... often ... enough ...
the law is rewritten as we speak.
... who will guard the lives
of those who dare to stand,
willing to die for this cause?
... who is the hero ...
who will serve truth
and honor sacred laws ...?
Do these folks have to die to prove the obvious?
p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica}
KOCH in our CRAW {a rhyme}
America chokes
when the brothers the Kochs
cram their cause
down our craws.
===============
p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica}
IGNOMINIOUS FUMBLING {a rhyme}
My computer dings;
yet anOther email-incomer.
Bad news it brings,
that Trumpism’s really a bummer.
. . . .
Deep is the doo-doo
where Trumpsters slosh and stumble.
Trumpsters are a crew who
ignominiously fumble.
==========================
The Dems should work with Trump if he proposes a good plan. However, the devil is in the details and his plan could actually be worse.
The Dems should work with Trump if he proposes a good plan. However, the devil is in the details and his plan could actually be worse.
@ Anklejive #15:
Yeah, yeah, yeah -- the jobs will never come back because of this, that, and everything.
Isn't it strange how it took only thirty years to transplant most of our colossal manufacturing base, the wealth of a nation, onto the soil of our principal geopolitical competitor because of very deliberate (not "naturally") legislation and regressive tax policies; yet, by reversing the dynamic, it would mysteriously take all eternity -- and then we still could not get any of it back?
Isn't it strange that China is on the verge of creating, possibly, up to 14 million new, high-quality jobs to lead the world in renewable energy technologies, but America somehow lost the manufacturing initiative that once made us an economic powerhouse that supported millions of good-paying jobs -- and, in fact, we are now going backwards?
Your argument turns on a few disingenuous logical fallacies:
Who do you think would manufacture the robotic machinery used in your hypothetical U.S. robot factories -- aliens from outer space? No -- it would be other factories! Have you ever considered that more enlightened countries and their politicians might be protecting their factories and their "blue-collar workers" (a condescending misnomer) with import tariffs, commonly through versions of the VAT system and smart corporate tax policy? Gee, how did other big Western democracies do that? Alien magic?
Furthermore, how did they gain the technological prowess to pull off such an amazing feat? Well, it must be extraterrestrial. How else? Again, have you ever considered that they might simply subsidize higher education to make it affordable and accessible for everyone who wants to learn the necessary skills to function in the modern world? Nope, we didn't see that in your analysis, either.
Evidently, Americans must be just too stupid and lazy to puzzle through all these very confusing alien concepts. Is that what you are implying? Sure sounds like it!
This may come as a shock to you, but mainstream Democrats largely identify with committed reformers, which you have so condescendingly dismissed as "hair-on-fire liberals," who are fighting for real revolutionary change in the mindset of our politicians. They consider it much more preferable than throwing in with the lot of smug, out-of-touch, intellectually dishonest, phony progressives, who collude with anti-labor Wall Street billionaires and the dark forces of globalization.
Obama is a good man who tried to do a lot of good things, but he was definitely on the wrong side and way out on a limb on this whole issue of transnational corporate giveaways and anti-labor, anti-sovereign, anti-environmental backroom deals. Such an untenable and stubborn political position for the leader of the Democratic Party was, although not the defining cause, a big contributing factor in losing this election. Screw his "signature" legacy on this particular front!
I really, really hate to admit it, but I do agree with some of the so-called "conservative" Republican trolls -- with huuuge caveats, of course!! -- on this reality check of Obama's misfire. NAFTA was Bill Clinton's major f--kup too! You can't merely tweak a thoroughly corrupt system and expect to "reform" it fundamentally.
Wall Street Democrats had better get their big dumb heads out of their big dumb asses and clean out all the self-deceptive crap plugging up their ears, if they ever expect to win any office more influential than city dogcatcher.
When they advocate for policies that ultimately hurt American workers, they are loading the guns of their enemies.
Sad!
@ Ou812 # 18:
Haha ... good one! Okay, okay; I'll concede!
We probably shouldn't escalate this particular one-upmanship of avatars. It's kinda fun trading jibes with you these many past weeks (months?), but we had better call a truce on the double entendre stuff before our comments get "flagged as offensive."
My bad; I started it. Sorry 'bout that.
As far as the other contentious exchanges on this forum are concerned, however, you are my favorite "rightie" troll with whom to do battle. Although, you probably don't consider that a compliment.
:--))
@deepspace 17
Well, I am a horse, so that's not exactly correct.
A Gelding for sure
@ Ou812 # 12:
Heehaw! Brilliant counterattack!
Well, I am a horse, so that's not exactly correct. Anyway, I happen to be wired straight but do respect and appreciate anyone wired differently. More power to them!
Your avatar, on the other hand, should come out of the closet and quit hating his/herself. You might be much happier.
:--))
Fight to get what we want, not just to watch Trump fail. Dems always succomb.
I've always cringed when you and hair-on-fire liberals dissed the TPP. It was one of President Barack Obama's signature foreign policy/trade agreements which went WAY farther than ever before in righting the wrongs of NAFTA. People want to blame the TPP and Obama for the globalisation that has occurred naturally as the world becomes a smaller and smaller place, due to technology. TPP was a response and a hedge to that.
Anyone who thinks blue-collar factory jobs are coming back to the U.S. is fooling themselves. Most factory jobs that are created here will involve technology and robots. A high school education will no longer be enough to compete for those types of jobs.
What Donald Trump did, with his promises and bluster, is hoodwink the people who are most vulnerable into thinking he would do something for them. In fact, he (in one fell swoop), is dismantling one of the most progressive trade agreements in history.
Sad!
Maybe it's the Putin connection, but man I look at pictures of the Trump family and all that comes to mind is those old 1918 pictures of the Romanov family, and I'm not saying that just to be mean, it really is the truth. It's starting to creep me out. I think we're at another one of those points in history where there will be no decent way out...and it's not because I desire any other way either.
Trump isn't any more legit than Ryan, McConnell, or Pence...they all got to where they are via billionaire sponsored lies, election fraud, deceit, corpse media propaganda, Putin...whatever it took.
For the umpteenth time the answer is offense....the Democrats need to be screaming lift the cap, single payer, as well as exposing Ryan and McConnell's efforts to screw hard working citzens. These guys don't want anybody to know what they're doing...the Dems need to take advantage of every chance they get on national television and aggressively speak the truth about what the republicans are up to. The vast majority want the cap raised as well as single payer...the dems need to take advantage of this. I can't think of any other issues that will ignite people more than these two will.
It also needs to be repeated over and over that Fox News is simply a right wing propaganda machine until the network becomes a total national joke . This network has done more damage to democracy than any other single factor in history. We are where we are today because of Fox News, and some help from Putin. I say this based on first hand evidence of foxmerized family and friends.....it's why red and rural america voted the way they did...absolutely no doubt.
@ Uncle Ralph # 7:
You're right, of course, that Democratic Administrations -- Clinton and Obama (and I think even Carter to a certain extent) helped Republicans push through corporate, oligarchical, job-killing trade deals, and that "Democrats don't have a leg to stand on here."
I would only add that the majority of Democrats in Congress, at least, notwithstanding the corp dems, did not support the various anti-labor trade pacts. Neither did the majority of street-level, rank-and-file Democrats, especially workers belonging to unions (once upon a time, a large base of the party), as well as most other workers -- of all political stripes -- who work hard at hard jobs, as opposed to sitting on their asses somewhere in the top floors of anti-labor corporate glass towers.
It is definitely the leadership, however, who repeatedly double-crossed their own constituents. Although they did try to do a lot of good things throughout the decades, this was a huge, huge failure of representative government. It should never be forgotten, never glossed over, never swept under the carpet, lest they continue their traitorous behavior against working people.
What the hell was Obama thinking pushing the TPP right up to the election?! That was just plain dumb coming from such an intelligent person! Clinton and her advisors were equally tone deaf and didn't come around until Bernie convinced her. By then, unfortunately, Trump occupied the high ground -- in the grossly conditioned electorate's minds anyway.
It was also a complete failure of the First Amendment and the press, our so-called fourth pillar of accountable democracy, when the MSM didn't grant Bernie three billion dollars worth of free exposure, like they did the lying pervert who stole the issue from him.
Deepspace
"Keep sucking the big one" Brilliant attack----but sucking the big one would leave you out. :)
Right on!
I'm beginning to believe that he is a closet Bernie fan... OK - maybe not a fan so much as the perfect follow-on. I think he's doing a great job at carrying on the revolution - about getting people involved in politics. Maybe in an unusual way, but all that really counts is getting people active. And on the occasion that he does something that I like, or others like, then awesome! it's a twofer!
To my mind, this question falls under the "even a broken clock is right twice a day" banner. When it's accurate, don't second-guess it -- but that doesn't mean you have to give up on fixing it.
Getting us out of the TPP is huge and, as we know, losing more jobs was only a secondary issue; the BFD was losing what's left of our sovereignty to corporate kangaroo courts. I'm glad -- nay, ecstatic -- to thank ANYBODY for saving us from that.
I'm damn near as glad he's resisting the neocons' Putin tantrums -- but the fun ends there, I'm purple with fury about his stinking cabinet picks and his moves so far against healthcare and for pipelines.
I agree...support his positions when they benefit the progressive agenda...disagree (vehemently), when they doesn't.
...and, do our best to get him out of there within the next two years
Oh yeah, and keep the heat on them Corporate Dems.
If you ridicule somebody because of their body parts, then you lose the high ground. You cannot object when that person ridicules others because of their body parts. Grading women 1-10 for example, or calling Rubio "little Marko", or talking trash about Carly Fiorina"s face. He has then successfully brought the conversation down to his level, so instead of an adult criticizing an immature and shallow person, we now have two 8 year olds yelling at each other on the play ground.
There is plenty of things about King Cons behavior, speech, and appearance decisions to anger him with, without sinking to his level.
It's the corporate oligarchy that has pushed through job-killing trade deals and they have had the unconditional support of Republican and Democratic administrations alike. Democrats don't have a leg to stand on here. Hillary was pro-TPP big time until she found out she could not win the nomination from Bernie Sanders if she was openly for it, so, at least as far as her "public position" went (as opposed to her self-described "private position") she reversed herself.
Let's not forget that we really were voting for the lesser of two evils this last election and that our evil was not very much less evil and did not smell very much less foul than the evil that won. The corporate oligarchy would have been happy in either case---that's how much real-world difference there was.
Just because a murderer serves at a soup kitchen to find his victims, that hardly redeems his murderous behavior! Only work with him on the things we know will help the people!