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@Ou812 #22:

Ha! Funny!

As usual, you are the insincere troll (by your own admission in a few threads back) who is the one engaging in "stupidity" and "lying" (to use your descriptors), who is just plain wrong about the history, and who unwittingly projects onto others your own shortcomings. I'm not sorry that I previously drew out into the open for all to witness your shallow and shameful retorts, which you sprinkle around just for shits and giggles. This latest angry response, however, is dripping with the resentment of a damaged ego. Grow up!

Back to what matters: It is solidly on the record that the Affordable Care Act was absolutely based on long-established Republican ideas. This wasn't some big secret with hidden motivations. Obama's team was quite up front about it, and he gave several speeches explaining that very point.

In spite of their own history, however, the Republican crime family manipulated the whole process by stealth, inserting poison pills and false promises before hypocritically voting against the bill en masse. From the very beginning of his presidency, they secretly committed to block everything Obama would attempt to accomplish for the people in order to make him look as bad as possible, trying to deny him any legislative wins whatsoever. Newt Gingrich publicly admitted it as a guest on Thom's radio show. Do your homework and read, "When the Tea Party Came to Town" by Robert Draper.

FYI: Max Baucus happened to be my Senator at the time (a Democrat, unfortunately, who sold out to the insurance industry); consequently, I was compelled to follow diligently the initial hearings and the hopelessly watered-down fiasco all the way to the final passage. Both corporate-corrupted Republican and Democratic reprobates in the run-up had their dirty hands all over it. To deny such a well-documented history is either gross ignorance or a despicable lie on your part. So, which is it, troll?

I very much doubt if "Imus in the Morning" -- one of your (ha ha) go-to sources -- would ever seriously discuss such weighty matters as a President trying very hard to save thousands of people's lives by giving American citizens better access to healthcare.

It's too bad that Republicans didn't even try, and only succeeded in torpedoing Obama's efforts every chance they got. This was bipartisan "sausage-making" at its worst.

Nevertheless, despite such a putrid process, the end result is still a thousand times better than the largely unregulated, hopelessly expensive private insurance market nightmare that used to rule over life and death by denying benefits to the sick. Sure, the ACA needs a lot of improvement. Or better yet, how about just doing away with this monstrous giveaway to the insurance industry altogether and implement Medicare for all, no matter one's age?

Tell us; why should anyone of conscience trust Republicans to do the right thing about one of our most important rights, considering their worthless track record?

John Dean, former White House counsel to Nixon who blew the whistle on Watergate, wrote a timeless and cogent book, published in 2006, titled, "Conservatives without Conscience." All conservatives without a conscience should read it; it would be like looking in the mirror. Then, they should drink a big glass of shut-up juice!

Democrats no doubt lost the election for all the reasons stated above. Although, "Interstate Crosscheck" purging Democrats by the millions has to be at the top of the list, as far as the mathematical calculations of the Electoral College is concerned anyway. Coupled with the three million popular vote difference, those are just huge, unprecedented numbers that future historians won't be able to ignore.

Nevertheless, Democrats definitely lost touch with many of their constituencies at the state and municipal levels, first, by kowtowing to the big-money donor class and, second, by stupidly playing softball with Republicans who play hardball. Let's keep in mind, however, establishment Democrats were playing by the rules of a game rigged by the conservative Supreme Court, primarily due to "Buckley v. Valeo" (1976) -- money is speech -- and "Citizens United v. FEC (2010) -- corporations are people.

By raising money from ordinary people, Bernie proved that wasn't a good enough excuse, as far as the first point is concerned. There simply is no excuse for the second point. The bruised and bloodied Democrats still standing must now rid their party of the go-along-to-get-along establishment cowards and fist-fight the lying-bastard conservatives right down into the mud and the blood of every piece of crap legislation they try to ram through Congress and foist onto the American people.

Yes, it's good for liberals to drink their own big glass of wake-up juice, but we should not stop at just blaming Democrats for the same exact things Republicans are guilty of a thousand fold. Let us never forget who are the real enemies and purveyors of iniquity in the first place. Unfortunately, since we're stuck with a Constitutionally mandated two-party system, we need to rally behind the opposition party with the best chance of fighting back effectively, while still supporting our third-party alternatives.

The traitors to our Constitutional principles are the alleged "conservatives" -- the xenophobes, misogynists, white supremacists, fear mongers, greed heads, false religionists, bigots, haters, and liars who cling to the backward-looking, reactionary Republican Party. These cretins are represented so appropriately by their hater-in-chief -- the authoritarian serial sexual pervert with the fake clown hair and creepy fish lips, an absurd fool spewing out nonsense who is the very definition of illegitimate.

Not truely friends, how can that happen. Don't like minded people hang together because they're not debating against one another on most issues but debating together against agreed issues. Does that make sense, ha.

Until we the people take a stand and fight back this will continue to happen. These problems we are experiencing will not only get more out of control but harder to stop. Enough with our biased media and Political posturing, I think it's time to seriously take to the streets and demand accountability for all the lies and deception our media and politicians have shoved down our throats before we lose more rights and privledges. I'm normally a peaceful person but I'm ready to physically fight for what we have already lost and what we are soon to lose if this new administration is left to do as it pleases. It's time to wake up the world!

It's too bad that Democrats are obsessing over Russian meddling when the real problem is Republican voter suppression. The Russia story will never get traction, here's why: Podesta was the victim of a phishing expedition, he knowingly provided his password. Hardly a sophisticated computer hack. DNC staff were repeatedly warned by the FBI that they were being hacked and did nothing. What we think we kinow is that people in Russia tried to access emails in both campaigns. From that many Dems have made the leap to 'the Russian government interfered with the election' when there is no evidence that any election processes were hacked by outside people. The bigger story in this election is Republican gerrymandering, closing of polling places, manipulation of schedules, Crosscheck and voter ID laws all tailored to shutting out as many Democratic voters as possible. Many Dems appear to be obsessing over Russia in order to avoid coming to grips with the failures of their own corporate-owned party.

There seem to be very few accountants in the Democratic Party. Perhaps that is why numbers seem to be ignored by the party leaders? Another reason is that the Dems ignore what is happening on red states. GA is where many rules have been changed by the Republican Secy of State that purges probable Democratic voters. Year after year after year. Even she voting rights act was whole, Dens ignore the rigging of registrations. Here we have to go to state drivers license to get state ID. The Republicans shuttered lots of the drivers license offices about 10 years ago.

Yep, they fighting a culture war & Dems are playing musical chairs.

*AHEM* According to person named, uh.. Thom Hartmann we are due for a terrible recession What dufus would want to be in office when it all comes crashing down?? This is a blessing in disguise!!!

There's so much we don't care about here in the US. We just don't have the energy for it.

No one remembers, but there was a congressional investigation into JFK's execution several years after the Warren Commission botch job. The investigators concluded that there was more than one gunman. They didn't care, however, who that extra gunman or gunmen was/were, or how how he/they happened to be shooting at the president at the exact same instant as Lee Harvey Oswald. That would have involved a conspiracy and everybody knows that conspiracies are bunk. But it was OK because the American people didn't care either by that point. Too busy, too tired, whatever.

There was the way that Saudi nationals were spirited out of the US on government chartered flights the day after 9/11. Somebody in the US government was afraid that Saudis might be lynched. They seemed to know that Saudis of some description had been responsible for the attack. The American people didn't have any idea who was responsible until weeks afterward.

Remember the anthrax scare after 9/11? Whatever happened with that? How was that resolved? It wasn't. The government found out that the anthrax used had come from a US bio-warfare facility (one of the ones we're not supposed to have under international treaty) and the whole incident was shut down---investigation, news coverage and all. And nobody knew or cared.

As Scottie Nell Hughes of the Trump organization explained on the Diane Rehm Show in December, there are no such things as facts, truth doesn't matter anymore. What we don't remember is that it hasn't for some time. We have a tradition in America, and as a species in general, of deferring to the despots in nearly every instance. Deferring to the despots might not always be right, but sure is always easy.

With Putin's boy in the oval office, things will probably get interesting, but as long as our internet and cable TV subscriptions aren't screwed with, we won't say, or much less, do anything. That's who we are these days.

Unfortunately that's a real easy question to answer Thom. The sad truth of the matter is that the establishment Dem's are just as corrupt as the establishment Repub's.

Granted, they don't exactly get their kick back money and campaign donations from the same exact industries/people. Nonetheless, they are just as corrupt and indebted to their rich donors who keep all establishment politicians on a leash.

Most of the establishment D's stand to gain no matter which puppet is in office be him/her D or R. It's the sad state of our oligar.... I mean democracy.

Just waiting for Democratic and Republican working people to stop the polarization and see the sham that is being played out on a national scale at their large expense.