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None of the above.
The Dems have been pushing white voters away for years.
@ stecoop01
Haha ... Yeah, you're right. After the last few rounds, I feel a little guilty pounding on him so hard. I like Kend, even though he mostly keeps listing the same old, canned, right-wing talking points over and over, albeit with a few new twists now and then that gives one pause. At least, he seems to be genuinely sincere in his belief system -- a real person, unlike some of the other smarmy troglodytes who only know how to gloat, grovel, and fawn all over their newfound big daddy figure.
Small pleasures for small minds, I guess. On their mucky little spit of land in the swamp, it's great fun to screech and hoot and fling crap at anyone passing by, like monkeys in a zoo -- not to insult monkeys. :-))
Now take Crabby Abbey (Cool moniker!) ... She seems pretty genuine too. You can almost taste the bile and hate rising up from the bowels. No mincing words there! Real, raw emotion coming through loud and clear! Yeah, baby!
Like the evil emperor in Star Wars to Luke Skywalker: "Yeees, I can feeel your anger! ... Let it out ... consume your being ... embrace the Dark Side ...!"
Awesome!
The DNC supression tactics against Bernie added to the other things that prevented his supporters from accepting Hillary.
Well said ct. most of the employers are not wealthy white guys. They are middle class guys taking advantage of cheap labour. America is the only country in the world that allows this, I don't get it. Illegals just drive down wages and take jobs away from Americans. Not to mention what it costs tax payers to educate their children and take care of there medical needs. Trump is right "America first".
That fence that is meant to keep illegal immigrants out, will, in a few years, be there to keep American citizens in.
The United States of America has never been a full employment society. The reason is simple. Our systems of law and taxation are of Old World (i.e., British) origins. Although the founding generation discarded the ideas of hereditary power, aristocracy and titles, the source of that power -- landed privilege -- remained. In fact, most of the founding leaders engaged extensively in land speculation and acquired landed estates dwarfing those of their Old World counterparts. And, as the population increased and moved westward, those who entered the Federal Congress and state governments followed in the footsteps of Washington and so many others who sought their fortunes by acquiring huge tracts of the public domain at very low cost, expecting to sell to settlers at a huge profit. Politicians also profited by giving away even more land to the railroads and other corporations.
By the time the frontier closed at the end of the 19th century, the basis for many of the fortunes gained during the "gilded age" of unbridled capitalism was deeply entrenched. The law secured and protected monopoly privileges for the few.
The one writer with sufficient courage and intestinal fortitude to take on this system directly was the newspaper editor and political economist Henry George. George attacked monopoly and landed privilege with a vengeance. While he came to head a potent social and political movement, his early death at age 58 in 1897 removed the movement's charasmatic leader. Although thousands continued the struggle in the U.S., in the U.K., in Australia and other countries, the power of landed interests has only increased. Landed privilege survived and survives to this day as the primary cause of poverty and the concentration of income and wealth that plagues our society. Henry George put forward a solution that was both peaceful and effective, but it never acquired sufficient public support to be widely adopted. In fact, at least in the U.S. land speculation seems to be hard-wired in the DNA of our behavior, despite the fact that this very behavior is destructive.
The sad thing is: the most segregated day and hours of the week remains to be on Sunday between 10 and 12 AM. As long as we ignore that the Republicans/Fascist stole God and don't call them out on that, it will only get worse. I really hate to say this but; I saw it happening and did nothing because the last time I darkened a church door "conservative mantras" were being preached so I just didn't go back. This was the mid 80's. I can only imajine what it's like now. Blind faith and, quite frankly, brainwashing is what they are all about now. And; tax free too! Looks like they could at least tithe to further the commons! I'm not an athiest, just a believer in the real God! Separation of Church and State must be watched closely, especially now!
If you look at some of the terrain along the border, a continuous 20-foot high wall would be akin to the Great Wall of China and probably visible from space when finished. Then people would just be smuggled in boats like people from Cuba and drugs from Colombia have been for decades. It would be a $multi-billion farce, but I think we all knew that all along. The reason the Chaney-Rove administration proposed a 700-mile fence to "protect" a 2000-mile border was because the oligarchy, who own the United States, make a lot of money off of the availability of illegal (read: barely more than slave) labor. It's the trained-to-be-xenophobic low-information voters in the rural Midwest and rust belt and maybe the south who want a wall. But they only want a wall symbolically; they wouldn't actually want or apply for any of the jobs traditionally done by illegals. The oligarchy has never wanted a wall and they knew they weren't getting one with Trump. Promising stuff that you have no intention of delivering is part of the Art of the Deal, akin to Hillary's assertion that sometimes you need to have a public platform and a separate private one. We voted for Trump's public platform, but we'll be getting his private one---if that.
The reason undocumented people come to the United States is because American employers seek lower wage employees. Likewise, our war on illegal drugs produced a black market for criminals. American citizens desire so much of the illegal drugs and we are willing to pay the price. It is our demand that creates the drug cartels. Included in the price are murders, bribery, extortion, and corruption of elected officials. The workforce of undocumented people and the drug wars are inspired by Americans who want either cheap labor or illegal drugs. Each problem is created by our desires.
The solution starts with an id system for US citizens that can not be counterfitted.
Then require all employers to use E-verify.
Then have madatory jail time and large fines for business owners using illegal labor.
And put in place a high tech zone that is impassable.
ct
Some of us always knew it had to be a complete hoax/lie/stupid idea/whatever, didn't we? But a bunch of people in this country wanted so badly to believe it, as though this giant wall paid for by the "offending" country would solve anything?
Let's ask Donald if he'll sign an ironclad contract with the American people that if Mexico hasn't paid for the wall or fence within four years, Donald will cover its cost instead of us, the taxpayers. Then we'll see whether or not he follows through or dodges.
The whole notion of a wall seems like a dodge anyway. Why aren't we addressing the facets of whatever problem is arising from undocumented immigrants? Why aren't we coming up with something that keeps families together, promotes a path to citizenship?
Racism is a polemc used by both sides of an argument... it's a current buzz word
However, America is still a racist country despite decades of struggle to change or remove
For example, republican obstruction of the current administration is simply based upon the fact that Obama is not white
Thom, NRA Gun nuts don't understand that Liberals own firearms and shoot too. We just don't make a fetish of it.
Anyone who lives in rural America knows that firearms are not viewed any different than an ax or a chainsaw. We moved to our cabin North of Bay City Saganaw, where many laided off autoworkers moved, when they lost their work. For the rural poor, vegetable gardens, keeping chickens and rabbits and hunting and fishing are what often keeps families from going hungry. Many urban peoples' only exposure to firearms is the evening news, the latest urban violence. But the rural experience is totally different.
It's way to blame poor brown people for a situation that we could easily solve if we started doing what Reagan stopped doing back in the 1980s: prosecute largely wealthy white employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
Well Mr. Hartman, I see racism is alive and well in the progressive movement.
Thom, you didn't give a rat's ass about the votes being counted correctly in the primary - the AP called California before the counting was even done. So the bitch lost? Too bad. She didn't even earn her place on the ticket. I'm glad Trump won and I hope he makes Obama look as bad as we all know he was. He's turning treasonous as he leaves the White House - what a spoiled brat! Good riddance. How many wars do you have to start and maintain to get that Nobel Peace Prize? I'm so glad I left the Democrat party - it's a party of rats and liars.
@DeepSpace:
I like how well informed you are, and love it when you "take apart" Kend, usually. However, there comes a point when you need to recognize that Kend is a blind man driving a car, and the best thing to do is stay out of his way and let him have his wreck; hopefully, he'll only hurt himself.
You asked what Democrats are waiting for.
Here is my answer, informed by 27 years of observation:
They are waiting to grow some balls, so they might be able to let them hang out like the Republicans do.
Only that will get you elected in America. That is what "The People" appreciate- cajones.
"The People" will vote for balls over brains any day of the week in any year.
Guaranteed!
Thom, you did not mention Jill Stein or anything about the Green Party in your post. Why not? Jill Stein made an attempt to verify the votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The DNC did little to support this effort. I still do not understand why that effort did not go anywhere? It is painfully clear that the government of the USA is corupt beyond repair and our votes do not count! Furthermore, very few people are doing anything to draw attention to this or make changes.
When is a swamp not a swamp?
When it's defined by Donald Trump.
We'll never really know why the dems don't stand up and cry foul, unless we retake our government and institute a truth and reconcilliation commission.
What's more important is what we're going to do about it. The sooner we understand that we can't vote our way out of the mess, the better it will be. The republicans made big gains and will soon have more control and power than ever. They grow more brazen all the time. If they stole the last round of elections, what makes anyone think that they won't do the same (and more) in 2018?
I wish Thom would call for open rebellion, protests more consistent, persistent and massive than ever before in our history #not my government, #not my congress, #not my state legislature, etc. instead of advising us to infiltrate and reform the democratic party.
We don't have the luxury of time to work for reforms through the parties. We're going to pass too many tipping points before we get adequate results and the we'll just get environmental and civilizations collapse as our consequence. And who knows what horrible things the new administrations will do? We could loose net neutrality, the new anti-propaganda act could be used to quash progressive programing and they could start WWIII just to distract us and consolidate power whie making big bucks.
I've suggested some deep demonstration dates before and I'll do it again now. It's not complete, but it's a start and it would be nice if some of you would help to fill in the rest of the calendar year.
Jan 21 was the infamous Citizens United Ruling
Feb 22 was the date in 1797 that the New Jersey Assembly passed legislation allowing women the right to vote, a right that they soon thereafter lost. Will the women and those who support equal rights come out in force on this date in 2017? Or will you condone the misogynist in chief through non-participation?
March 6 was the Dread Scott decision in 1857 when the Supreme Court effectively eliminated black men from voting. If you support liberty and justice for all then March 6, 2017 is an auspicious date to take to the streets in opposition to the kleptocrats and in celebration of the progress we have made as a nation.
The last week of March is significant in our history of events pertaining to electoral participation and integrity.
March 26, 1790 passage of the Naturalization Act that excluded Native Americans, Negros and Asians from voting
March 27, 2002 brought passage of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act = McCain-Feingold Act
March 30, 1870 brought the 15th Amendment giving blacks the right to vote
May 6 was another legislated discrimination effort excluding Chinese from voting rights with the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882
June 4 brought a victory in 1919 for women's suffrage
June 25 was when the Supreme Court invalidated portions of the Voting Rights Act justifying the decision by asserting that we now lived in a post-racial society because the American People elected it's first black President by such overwhelming numbers that the kleptocrats were unable to steal that office without risking massive suspicions of their fraudulent adjustments to vote tallies.
July 18 was the date that the Supreme accepted to adjudicate the Citizens United Case
July 20 marks the anniversary of the first human to walk on the moon. What does that have to do with election reforms and stuff like that? That date is perhaps the best date to rally together to remember and celebrate what we can do as a people untied with a functional government Of, By and For The People.
Neil Armstrong said, "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" and "We come in peace for all of humanity". So when millions of people demonstrate and celebrate on that day we reaffirm what we can do. Millions of others around the world should rally in solidarity with The New American Revolution because we do live in a global Society of Democrats who share this one precious planet, our only home that is currently in dire environmental peril and what happens in the United States affects the entire world.
@ Kend #46:
That's your hold card ? After nearly all the rest of the right-wing nonsense has been exposed as pure crap, the national debt is now your big ace in the hole? Strange...
The debt increased about 7 trillion since 2009, and a good percentage of that was because Obama put the village idiot's trillions of dollars in war debt on the books and shouldered the blame from low-information voters for Republicans' original sins.
Ever since, our nation has been hopelessly tangled up in Republican-induced, intractable Middle East conflicts at the expense of domestic spending. Public wars to protect the private assets of the oil industry and obscene profits of defense contractors don't come cheap (socialism for the wealthy). Republicans also blew up the debt by awarding unwarranted tax cuts to their billionaire donor buddies, shifting the tax burden down onto the bony shoulders of a dwindling middle class. At least the rate of deficit spending has decreased under Obama since Republicans started World War Three over oil and tanked the world economy.
Just think of all the taxpayer money -- and lives -- that would have been saved if Darth Cheney hadn't made daily trips down to the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia to brow-beat intelligence analysts, hadn't presented cherry-picked "facts" to Karl Rove's White House Iraq Group (WHIG), and hadn't lied America into a war in the wrong country. (Read "Hubris" by Isikoff and Corn; "The Greatest Story Ever Sold" by Frank Rich; "Blood Money" by T. Christian Miller; "Fiasco" by Thomas Ricks.)
There's your national debt! History sucks for wing-nut propagandists! The debt increased under Republican administrations much more than under under Democrats, going all the way back to Reagan, who tripled it. Again, read about the Republican "Two Santa Clause" strategy.
But don't get your undies in a bundle over the debt that we owe ourselves. We're still very far from the danger mark. U.S. Treasuries are still the safest, stablest, and most sought after investment anywhere, and a great way to spread around a little positive piece of America to the rest of the world. Nobody ever lost money investing in our treasury bonds, backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government.
The "Oh my God, we're all gonna end up in the poor house because of the national debt" is just another right-wing canard to scare low-information voters.
ps: This isn't a game about me "winning" some kind of weird debate you're having with yourself in your head. It's a struggle to expose lies and truth, from wherever it may come and to wherever it may lead. If we lose that struggle, well, then we all lose.
Deepspace in 2009 the Democrats had the house, senate and the Whitehouse in eight years you lost them all and increased you national debt about nine trillion dollars. Blame it on whatever you want. You win.
One problem with "the law" in America is, even if you can see a problem coming, the legal system won't intervene until a crime is committed - with enough evidence to justify prosecution (meaning, will it win the case in court) and enough witnesses who are willing to testify honestly in a climate where false testimonies are easily bought and live witnesses are effectively dissuaded from testifying.
I figure if Bernie Sanders, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden are not prepared to challenge the vote in court - now, just as in 2004 - who am I to do otherwise?
Those folks must have a clearer picture of the political reality than I do. Either they know they cannot win the case in court, in spite of available evidence, or we are witnessing one piece of a complex process of determining truth from lie, at the same time as testing individual and community integrity over time - too deep for me to see through.
@ Legend #42:
My pleasure. And thank you for your many contributions, airing the truth. This stuff is vitally important!
@ BiggesstG #41:
Yeah, it was a scam. Greg Palast consulted with Jill Stein to pivot off the recounts and expose the widespread fraud, but Republicans at every level shut them down. Obviously, they are covering their tracks.
(I edited a few things on my previous post, so it wound up out of sequence.)
@ Kend #39:
#1. Lie: I never said nor do I believe in whatever you think I said that would ensure "the Republicans will be in power for ever." Seriously, Kend, why do you keep making up stuff out of the blue ... or out of the black vacuum of your alternate universe?
#2. Lie: The Democrats' national campaign did not spend any more time and energy on the "bathroom bill" proportionally than they did on any other issue important to their constituents at the local levels. Maybe that's what you were focused on to the exclusion of other, just as important issues. Please don't project onto others your own tunnel vision and strange proclivities.
By the way, connecting the dots from this issue to other unrelated issues is a tell that indicates unconscious bigotry. Look deeply into that very scary mirror above the sink the next time you use a bathroom.
#3. Lie: "...most families [are] struggling to feed their families and they haven't see [sic] a raise for ten years it." Why are you blaming the Democrats for the predictable results of Republican policies?
First sub-lie: A lot of families, unfortunately, are still struggling but certainly not "most." In 2009, Republicans handed Democrats an almost completely ruined economy -- the deepest recession since the Republican Great Depression of the thirties! Unemployment was well into double digits back then; today, Democrats are again handing over a healthier economy to the wrecking- ball party. By all measures, considering where it started, the economy has vastly improved since the days of the village idiot. (I mean the previous Republican, not the current pervert)
The unemployment rate is down to around 4.5 -- not great but leaps and bounds better than 2008-9. Of course, the underlying fundamentals are still threatening continuing growth -- thanks primarily to Republican's talent for creating bubbles. Read Matt Taibbi's "The Great American Bubble Machine" over at "Rolling Stone," or his book, "Griftopia."
Second lie: Throughout history, it has always been Republicans who have suppressed wages, and were stingy about granting raises, especially the national minimum wage -- so that owners of transnational corporations (excluding you as a boss of a small business) can run away with most of the world's booty. In fact, on this very blog site not too long ago, you were the one squealing about the Democrats' fight for livable wages.
#4. Lie: "...the biggest disconnect Democrats [have] is with rural America." No, the biggest disconnect they have is with rural, white supremacist Amerikkka. I live in a very rural state, and hundreds of thousands of white working class people -- with brains and a conscience -- voted Democratic all the way down the ballot. In California and New York and Chicago, tens of millions of people voted for Trump (stupidly). Quit trying to make elections about geography, and quit conflating racism and bigotry with rural America and working people. It's very insulting!
#5. Lie: "..they don't care as there isn't enough votes to worry about it but everyone eats and when food costs are skyrocketing it does become a issue." Your sentence construction makes no sense. I think you are trying to insinuate that Democrats only care about rural American votes when inflation becomes an issue, making it hard to feed families. Are you now blaming Democrats for inflation too, and for not caring about people in need until they need their votes? That is so disgusting on so many levels, I don't really know where to begin.
In my rural, very red state, as I suspect in most rural states, the local Democratic Party is very active all year long -- even in off years with no elections -- holding many fundraisers to help the poor and other various community endeavors, as does the Republican Party. That is what political parties are supposed to do. Duh! To get votes, they must be responsive to citizens -- that's the whole idea of Democracy. And we can hold politicians accountable by withholding our votes.
Of course, on the national level -- because of how expensive campaigning has become (due to rulings by a Republican Supreme Court), parties simply can't raise enough money to show up at every community in every state. It's a mathematical equation that both parties must follow in order to win the Electoral College votes, an antiquated system that historically only favors Republicans. Under this ridiculous, undemocratic process, both solid blue and solid red states seldom see national campaigns. Again, why are you indirectly blaming Democrats for a system that has never helped them but instead has installed another Republican buffoon as an illegitimate "president" -- even worse than the Bush brain who usurped his little toy throne?
#6. Lie: "...a media that was once owned by the left." Corporate media was never "owned by the left." Quite the opposite! You are living in a completely delusional state of denial if you think the consolidated media empire in this country has ever worked for or benefited Democrats. That is just plain laughable and requires no further explanation. Good God!
#7. Lie: "...the Clinton's crooked past was the main reason they lost." That entire meme is absolutely false! Rather than add to this already too-long post, please read post #35 above; that is, if you can stand to plow through another one of my long-winded explications. Of course, you will never be convinced otherwise -- the Big Lie (that Joseph Goebbels would be proud of) has been repeated so often over the decades that it has become a strict article of faith for right-wing liars.
#8. Lie: "Having a bunch of actors, people who make a living pretending they are someone else are not qualified to tell me who to vote for. I think it backfired with middle America."
Heehaw ... your pique is showing. I'm not sure which "actors" you are referring to exactly, but I will take it to mean the liberals whom you are interacting with on this blog. Speaking for myself, I'm just an Irish horse who steals Guinness from my unawares owner. I make a living fertilizing the pasture. Throwing turds back at trolls who crap on blogs is a service I provide to humanity for free.
Nobody is telling you "who to vote for," Kend. By all means vote away -- for whatever authoritarian, pathological liar, and sexual pervert with whom you can identify! You said you were Canadian, so you must enjoy dual citizenship. Well, good for you! Sorry; liberals are the majority in this country too. It must drive you nuts to have Justin Trudeau, an unabashed liberal, for Prime Minister. At least you can find a little solace down hear in Trumpland, where a minority of fascist followers happen to get lucky and stole an election.
Conclusion: What "backfired with Middle America" is massive election fraud perpetrated by -- you guessed it -- Republicans! If all the votes were counted, the liberals down here in this part of the North American continent would have easily won the Presidency, the Senate, and eroded the Republican's undemocratic, gerrymandered super majority in the House.
That's a critical "if." The integrity of future elections must at all cost ensure the survivability of our democracy -- and really, the entire planet, when so many Republican climate deniers are now holding the strongest reins of power! Everything depends on whether this present generation of voters, at the very least, fully recognizes and acknowledges the dire threat to democracy that we have just witnessed. More importantly, every citizen -- including dual citizens -- must protest and clamor loudly for change. Otherwise, it's over.
I don't hold out much hope; there are just too many ubiquitous lies disseminated by too many gullible fools inhaling too much false-news gas emanating from the right-wing swamp.
ps: We can do this all day, every day, Kend, if you and your fellow trolls insist on spinning flagrant fallacies on this blog.