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Your guest who thinks health care is a privledge was loudly dominating the conversation, leaving you no space to rebut his elitist positions. I'm thinking Tea Party tactics and the kind of bullying we'll be seeing much more of in the coming months. It's not worth listening to, Thom. I think you should treat obnoxious guests the same as you do obnoxious callers.
Manning is not free yet, and may never be. Will he be free and alive this time next year?
Roland
John Christian brings up an important point; that "negative remarks" are not helping.
Our go-to response is to throw up facts and debunk the latest absurd statement by the GOP and their new President (and we must make them own this guy). Cognitive science and social science tell us that fact flinging and derision hurts us in a number of ways.
Our leaders have been science deniers -they seem to have intentionally ignored cognitive science. We need a culture on the left that understands how the human brain really works and creates frames and messages that build our worldview into people's brains. This is what the GOP has done for decades and it's been so effective they can get people to believe anything.
Unlike the GOP, we can do this with integrity. Here in MN our state party is the first to fund workshops and materials on framing. We are holding them in each congressional district. We are trying to build that culture. If you're not here (or even if you are) get started by reading anything by George Lakoff and Jonathan Haidt and read Thom's books, especially Crack the Code.
If we don't do this we will be completely unprepared if the "middle" voters, in Brexit like regret, suddenly get that Trump and the GOP are morally bankrupt. If the recent polls are correct, that realization may have already started.
Tom wonders:
Does Trump actually want to go beyond Obamacare?
Is he lying?
Or was this just a clever ploy to get Republicans to keep things as they are and scrap their politically disastrous plan to repeal the Affordable Care Act?
The answers are no, of course and I doubt it, respectively. Assuming there is any cogent thought behind anything Trump says, co-opting the frame of "insurance for everybody" to describe whatever atrocity the Republicans come up with, very effectively takes the term away from us -and sows confusion. If we don't use our own frames the GOP will just take them away.
This is a perfect example of why we need to get our act together on framing.
He is putting more thought into Looting the US Treasury with the best Thieves in the World-Goldman Sachs
He doesn't put enough thought into what he says
Is Trump gonna shut down the EPA? Is it just a matter of time? He's now busy with the out-of-country political issues, but I'm sure he won't give up his psycho dream to do it. God save us from him.
Brian - one freelance limited educator.
p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica}
to the TRUMPITE MINION: {a limerick}
Shut it down, ye Trumpite minion.
Heed ye us Lefties’ opinion
that ye saddle our nation
with stark devastation
by applauding The Donald’s dominion.
==============================
One of two things will happen.
The republicans will gut the ACA and leave millions of Americans with no health insurance.
Or, they will essentially just rename the ACA to RepubliCare or, no wait, Trump will have to have his name on it: Trump-O-Care. It will be no different than it was, but it will have been distanced, at least in name, from that icky black man who twice defeated the best candidates the Republicans had to offer.
So far I consider my Kaiser Permanente Advantage plan to be better than any gap plan. If you are reasonbly healthy and fit it will save you money. After 1.8 years I would have paid a lot more for a lot less with a gap plan. Kaiser is only in a few states.
@ Oldskoold:
Haha ... DO IT! Wouldn't that be funny ... and so appropriate! Never happen though.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Trump and Putin are sure denying the hell out of the infamous "pee pee" tapes. Alec Baldwin "splashed" it all over SNL, "pissed" off the "Donald" bigly, shook his "twitter" a little too long over all that "exposure" and media "saturation."
And yes, it is scarier than hell that these two bozos are basically in charge of two thirds of the geopolitical world. Who would have thought that China might have to play the role of adult. That's a scary thought too.
Remember the wall Trump said he will build?.....if you undersatnd that, then you know what he means about "insurance for everybody".
Only two more days to declare the election invalid and proceed with the treason trial. If not, and Pence becomes president, has it occurred to anyone that when the banks too big to fail go under this time around, there is no room to drop rates, and there won't be a bailout either???? House Teapublicans will block it.... No emergency economic stabilization act this time around. ...and that's just the beginning of the end, as climate change goes on anabolic steroids. Wall Street is looking at 1929 all over again.
Remember the Iraq war that should have never happened because of JEB, and Floriduh?...unlike that election fraud.....what doesn't need to happen this time around will make the Iraq war look like a simple matter.
ONLY TWO MORE DAYS TO AVIOD A GLOBAL LIVING HELL!
Hello: So we are "Lambasting" another "New" president. I am a Dedicated Democrat and Conservative. I do not favor more Gun Control. I am getting tired of hearing only negative remarks. I voted "Green" because I would not vote for Hillary or Donald. I am sure that this Post will get a lot of idiot remarks but it's to be expected from what I have read on most of the Comments. As for his Sexual Discrepencies, look back on other presidents..... Duh. I agree with almost everything Thom Hartmann has to say but lets get out of the rut. Do you really think "Ranting" will get us anywhere? I too am very much concerned about our Social Security and Medicare. Remember, the obstacles Obama had to "Hurdle" were mostly created by past Presidents. OK............ Bring it on.
Stay completely away from all "advantage" plans! For all the reasons you have laid out, they are nothing but insurance company rip-offs that don't give any advantage whatsoever over straight Medicare, but end up costing much more than just purchasing regular supplemental policies. You pay a lot extra for their so-called "streamlined" convenience.
Unfortunately, Republicans and their insurance industry-dirty Democratic Bobbsey twins have deliberately punched so many holes in the basic program that we victims are forced to buy private industry products. Shop around and get a good stand-alone supplemental policy. Generally, the stand-alone supplementals are all about the same, with only small differences here and there on this or that, depending on prices, which really don't vary that much either. Ditto for a stand-alone Part D policy.
It would behoove you, though, to seek outside advice somewhere else besides self-serving insurance agents and from someone you trust to help you and not themselves. A good source of honest, straight forward information is on Wendell Potter's website. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by his depth of knowledge and experience, and his hard-won integrity.
I happen to be a lifetime union member, so they go to bat for us at retirement age to come up with the best combination of basic Medicare, a separate supplemental, and a separate Part D.
In a perfect world (without the cons), we wouldn't have to buy any supplementals, because basic Medicare would cover it all. Private insurance industry greed-heads wouldn't be wheeling and dealing in primary healthcare at all.
Trump says all kinds of things. Health care to him could mean something very different than what we consider health care. It could be some kind of medicaid program with add ons. Who knows? could be basic insurance with no extras.
One thing I would like to mention is that we need to have a BIG discussion on Medicare.
Medicare is so biased and out of control it is ridiculous. It is in total control of the health insurance companies. Right now they can choose what county they want to be in and if they decide to leave--too bad for you. The prices vary from one area to another with no explanation even though coverage is the same. For example, here in California, Kaiser Permanente which advertizes itself as 5 star charges no base rate in some areas, while in others the rate can be over $90/month or more. This is in addition to the amount taken out for Medicare. This is for an advantage plan. Other companies have add on policies which do or do not have drug insurance (part d). There is also basic medicare with an assortment of expensive add ons depending on how much service one wants to get to pay for the things that medicare doesn't. these area very expensive. All of these extra plans are in addition to basic medicare. The problem is the copay rate for some of these plans, which can be 20% plus a large deductible. The service providers have absolute power over where they go and how much they charge. I spent months before I moved trying to find a place that was affordable and which had lower rates than I was paying with Kaiser. Ended up with a plan that is less expensive but now has a 20% copay for surgeries. Just found out I may need cataract surgery and will have to pay a lot extra because of the plan I have. There is no other advanatage plan offered in my county for medicare except those that have add ons which as I mentioned are very expensive. One more thing--they can raise their prices anytime they want.
Lets just hope he is going to be as much a disaster to the fascist tea party republicans as he appears to be to our progressive agenda. In some respects he can hurt them more than us as far as the economy and greed are concerned. Is he really broke? If so, he has an agenda more to our liking and would really reign in the hedge fund/eletist wall street types on the economic front. I have thought he was toast many times, as most have, but somehow he pulls through. The Supreme Court nominee and his "health care for all" statement will be the litmus test. If he as as smart as he says he is, he will nominate a progressive to the court just to watch them squirm, and say the balance was necessary and dare them not to confirm he or she, and, begin the process toward single payer and call them ungodly for opposing! And..... then call them robberbarons and bandits if they start on Social Security and Medicare! Come on Mr. President "elect"; do it! You campaigned as such!
The thing that haunts me now much more than anything is his wife's (first Lady after Friday) birthplace is Europe (Romania or somewhere close) and his recent diatraubs regarding NATO. Additionally; Putin coming to his defense about the "Golden Shower crap". Are we really looking at the possibility of collusion betwixt the US and Russia attempting to take over the world? That scares the hell out of me. We are treading within the "unimajinable" now every day! May God have mercy and give some direction.......
Lets just hope he is going to be as much a disaster to the fascist tea party republicans as he appears to be to our progressive agenda. In some respects he can hurt them more than us as far as the economy and greed are concerned. Is he really broke? If so, he has an agenda more to our liking and would really reign in the hedge fund/eletist wall street types on the economic front. I have thought he was toast many times, as most have, but somehow he pulls through. The Supreme Court nominee and his "health care for all" statement will be the litmus test. If he as as smart as he says he is, he will nominate a progressive to the court just to watch them squirm, and say the balance was necessary and dare them not to confirm he or she, and, begin the process toward single payer and call them ungodly for opposing! And..... then call them robberbarons and bandits if they start on Social Security and Medicare! Come on Mr. President "elect"; do it! You campaigned as such!
The thing that haunts me now much more than anything is his wife's (first Lady after Friday) birthplace is Europe (Romania or somewhere close) and his recent diatraubs regarding NATO. Additionally; Putin coming to his defense about the "Golden Shower crap". Are we really looking at the possibility of collusion betwixt the US and Russia attempting to take over the world? That scares the hell out of me. We are treading within the "unimajinable" now every day! May God have mercy and give some direction.......
More than likely, it is none of the above. It is not that he wants to go beyond Obamacare; it is not that he is deliberately lying per se, any more than usual anyway (He just doesn't understand what the truth is.); it is not a clever ploy to keep things as they are.
What is likely spewing forth from his junk-food hole is just more nonsensical mishmash. It's a safe Irish bet that he doesn't realize the full import of universal healthcare, single payer, or the simplest and cheapest solution, which would be to use the bureaucracy already in place, ban insurance companies from operating in the primary healthcare market, and expand Medicare to include all ages.
Don't give this blowhard too much credit for making any sense or, especially, for being anything close to clever.
To me it doesn't matter if we had the best healthcare coverage for all, as the current medical model is broke, they hand out drugs and treatments that do nothing to stop health issues or prevent them, we live in a toxic Nation that is making more and more people sick. These nasty Big Pharma drugs cause more harm to us and thinking they help is just wrong. Yes I'll agree that there are some that do need drugs for conditions they never should have gotten in the first place such as removing someones gallbladder, thyroid etc.
Why aren't the MDs looking for the cause instead of masking symptoms? They are selling us more drugs to cover up the side affects from these drugs as well. This is insanity and will break any healthcare system they come up with unless they start treating the cause of these conditions.
Your first point is a non sequitur that makes no sense in the context of my previous post. I never contested that the Democrats had a majority to pass the bill. Of course they did; how else would it have passed? Does your reading comprehension suffer when you get mad and see red?
And it's a damn good thing the Democrats did have that tiny window of opportunity. (Although the Democrats had a majority in the House, they had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate for only about three months until Ted Kennedy died.) They saved thousands and thousands of lives that otherwise would have been lost under a Republican majority -- as they will be now.
All the other points you just made are nothing but pure Republican propaganda, obfuscation, and the twisting of the historical record; or, as I prefer to call it: despicable lies.
Even deeply brainwashed right-wingers could easily check the record if they would only find the moral courage and a germ of intelligence to drag their red asses out of the swamp and attempt to comprehend the consequences of actual history, instead of denying it and creating an artificial past that suits their own cartoonish narrative.
The vast majority of sober-minded voters are not fooled by your alternate reality and did not vote for either Trump or your Republican puppet masters -- no matter how many times you recite the Trump mantra that he won a mandate from the people. He did not! He is the most unpopular Pretender to the Throne in modern history.
Yet again, you are resorting to a cheap psychological debate trick by projecting your own ignorant "excuses" and "bullshit" (to use your angry words) onto others. Seriously, why do you and your fellow ankle-biting trolls hang out on a truth-telling liberal forum, insist on mindlessly regurgitating the same old counterfactual Republican talking points over and over, and then whine and cry like babies when you are spanked? Sad.
Your whole threadbare shtick is becoming rather tiresome and boring. This is not the proper venue to seek the professional help you so obviously and desperately need.
1. The dems had total majority in the house and senate when obamacare was passes. Stop with the republicans bullshit.
2. Tell your "Harvard study" of 2009 to stick it. Costs since obamacare was passed have gone totally out of control. Deductibles are in many cases over $12,000 before any insurance kicks in. One of the major reasons you lost the election is because working Americans are sick and tired of your "excuses".
3. You are in the deep minority thinking Trump is a Republican. Even Hartmann today admitted so. Trump is a pragmatist not a Republican or a Democrat.
4. Glad we agree. You can stop your wild speculating and join the others that need to CALM DOWN!
Bonus? I didn't know we already had WWIII. Good to know the world got that out of their system. See, now you can RELAX.
.
@ Diane #21:
1. "...was designed to fail from the start and you know it."
Yes, we know perfectly well who on the committee designed the Affordable Care Act to fail by promising they would vote for it only if Democrats "compromised" by not allowing a public option and by including Republican poison pills. Republicans double-crossed the American people a second time by voting against what they intentionally f--ked up and then refused to fix for the last seven years.
2. "...what was already in existence worked fine and was far less costly for most Americans."
Wrong. According to a 2009 study by Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance, nearly 45,000 uninsured Americans every year were dying from lack of access to healthcare before the Affordable Care Act. Also, premiums were rising much faster than they are now, while insurance companies were skimming up to 40 percent. At least now, they are restricted to 20 percent, which could have been even lower if not for Republican "compromises." And, insurance companies can no longer deny coverage for preconditions. There are many more benefits for the American people, but the list is too long to include here.
3. "Trump is not a Republican."
Wrong. This statement is laughable and false! He ran as a Republican and virtually all Republicans voted for him. Are you now trying to distance yourself from the Republican Party or from Trump?
4. "You haven't seen Trumps proposal ..."
Correct. We haven't seen his proposal, because he has no proposal, and neither do Republicans in Congress. They can't figure out how to pay for it while still keeping all those millions of constituents insured.
Bonus: "...stop living in the past."
Yeah, history and facts really suck for Republican warlords who lied us into WWIII in the Middle East and destroyed the world economy under their last village idiot ... and for Trump groupies living in a Pollyannaish fantasy land.
deepspace
#16
"PERVERT Trump deserves the same level of respect and cooperation that Republicans accorded PRESIDENT Obama for the last eight years."
I'll show you, I can be as big of a prick as they were. Classy aren't we?
Just curious. How do you feel about this guy?
Young female intern, known philandering POTUS, cigar, vagina, blowjob in the white house, lying about it on national television, proof on her dress, what is, is.
it would appear the republicans are moving quickly on several fronts, the ACA being the most visible, but far more sinister are the budgetary changes they have all ready initiated in medicare funding and nobody seems to be talking about this? health insurance for everybody is a great slogan, and truly amazing coming out of trump's mouth. i really don't know what to make of all this. keep enlightening us thom!
PERVERT Trump deserves the same level of respect and cooperation that Republicans accorded PRESIDENT Obama for the last eight years.