I wonder where Jared and "Barbie" are? I have been told that Muller is a honorable man, (although still a Republican), by some who really should know that went to Ivy League schools and in the know of souls they may have been associated with. Jury still out on that for me. I think that the charges being "sealed" and releasing that on a Friday night... (No; sorry, not releasing, but CNN says they were charges, yet sealed last I checked not confirmed by MSNBC). Sharpening pitchforks yet? I say, they gonna be a couple of sleepless nights for a bunch of traitors! If "Jared and Barbie are in Dubai", I dare say they will cast shaddow on "Merican soil" ever again! (not a misspelling, an attempt to communicate with those I saw with "merican and christian flags" mounted in the beds of pickup trucks parading all around the South before they elected these fascist!
To say "are the wholly owned shills of some very dirty industries" is only about the Republicans is very unfair. The Democrats are just as bad. The whole system is corrupt. The Clinton's are at the top of the list. Hiding behind a foundation that helps the poor, which is a very good cause, only to take massive amounts of money out and fly around in private jets on the foundation's dime. It is brilliant. Who would ever question a worthy charity well besides kend. They even made back door deals with Russia and Iran to funnel cash into the foundation. Look at Chelsea Clinton's net worth now that is greed
$15 million. Chelsea Clinton earned her net worth through her career at the consulting firm of McKinsey & Company, as well as Avenue Capital Group and she is also on the board of the School for American Ballet.
Really consulting? Where is the media on this one. Sanders will be next.
The administration is not ignoring our wants and needs. They are always studying them. Analyzing the best way to convey their concerns for us convincingly. Making it sound fresh. Outright lying, but leaving enough wiggle room to walk it back a little here and there. It's become a science. Favorite lines? "We will be looking into that," and "thank you."
Without a draft the military has to do something to recruit. They have marketing departments and do marketing research. The academies supply most of the officers. They provide excellent education for free and pay you while you get it, for 4 to 6 years of paid service. The recruits are mostly from the poor that have few other options. Recently Trumped signed an executive order to bring back 1500 retired Air Force pilots. This order also left it open to bring back more retirees in all branches as needed.
Ou812 I brought the vintage Victorian door knobs including Windsor pattern mortise lock set secured in a fine velvet drawstring sack in case you want to see them.
Maybe if one were to try some 'out of the box' technique they could try treating the slacker differently whether that means an increase in pay or acting more respectfully to them, treating them as a valued part of the company, finding a key role for them to succeed in, it would be a win win situation and drive the once slacker employee into one of the best overall performers. Somehow those sitting in fat cat positions feel all powerful for no reason, hurting themselves in the end; some having to sell their company who then point fingers and placing blame on anything but themselves.
The December 2016 Presidential report on Artificial Intelligence, Automation, and the Economy states that "Advancements in computer vision and related technologies have made the feasibility of fully automated vehicles (AVs), which do not require a human driver... over roughly the next decade or two... 47 percent of U.S. jobs are at risk of being replaced by AI technologies and computerization." furthermore, "Growing and sustaining the middle class requires strong labor unions. Labor unions help to build the middle class and have been critical in restoring the link between hard work and opportunity so the benefits of economic growth can be more broadly shared. Unions have been at the forefront of establishing the 40-hour work week and the weekend, eliminating child labor laws, and establishing fair benefits and decent wages. Policymakers should explore ways to empower worker voice in the workplace through strengthening protections for organizing and creating new and innovative ways for workers to make their voices heard."
And; I was glad that other ones are referring to these people as Fascist! Call them what they are......... Good Job! Big omission here... The Rebel "stars and bars battle flag was usually the biggest". Guess they didn't know there was another that represented the true confederacy..... Usually I would say "but; bless their hearts". Done with that. This is so critical for humanity now. The bastard got the ball!
Runaway greed, runaway war, runaway fascism is the zeitgeist of the new era, same as the old era. Human nature has not advanced, only time -- and now we're running out of it.
Leave it to a troll that uses a misogynist, sexually demeaning to women icon for his site ID, to nit-pick about 2008 or 2009, when had he read Thom's link, he would have seen that the dates referred to in the article, were all well within the Obama presidency.
But of course, that is not the question. Does he presume that Obama had time or even the inclination to take a fine tooth comb to every detail of the massive Pentagon budget. Aren't we supposed to at least think that those that have risen to the highest levels of the military should have earned some degree of trust? True they abused this trust, to peruse a nationalistic, fascist agenda counter to the spirit of our constitution. But it was their duty to preserve that trust rather than Obama to second guess every minute detail.
And to be honest, Obama may well have approved it anyway, considering the extreme patriotic fervor that had swept the country after 911. But we are not seeking to forgive Obama, Bush, Trump or any president that approved or went along with this Pentagon policy. We are pointing it out to highlight the dangerous direction that out nation has moved toward to implement a militaristic, propagandized, unconstitutional, oligarchy that favors money and power above all.
For Decades they have always favored scientists that sold themselves to the corporations and hated the ones who told the truth. Now they have the absolute power to do so. There's not money in the truth.
Gee, Diane, so angry and insulting! "I feel your pain." (And Bubba does too.) All I did was attempt to contest your points and submit reasonable (I thought anyway) counterpoints. I'm sorry that a critique of your statements and another viewpoint is apparently so difficult to handle without losing it and resorting to ad hominem attacks.
It's not that I have a pyscho-mumbo-jumbo "desire to be right all the time" (I don't.); it's that you obviously failed to get past your anger enough to fully comprehend what I was trying to get at -- or, if you did, to mischaracterize it.
Wouldn't the best solution be just to fire an incorrigible "slacker" rather than to seek pay inequality that invariably sows resentment and discord among workers? Agree or disagree, isn't that the meat of this particular issue?
Also, please show where I said or alluded to the non-fact that an employer could "selectively pay one union worker more money for doing the same job as a slacker." I do know "damn well" that is most definitely not true and would never have suggested otherwise. What I don't know though is if you create straw man arguments unconsciously or deliberately.
In fact I clearly stated the opposite case, "One of the main tenets of unionization is that everyone should receive the same pay for the same job..." Nothing stops an employer, however, from increasing the pay scale for job categories -- prescribed duties negotiated with the union -- to attract quality workers, or to have different rates of pay for different jobs.
Yes, the needs of a customer should come first in any business, but should that motto also extend to a customer having a say in the relationship an employer has with an employee?
For example, Wall Mart is a non-union shop; should a customer be able to dictate to management which cashiers they should place at the cash register? ("I prefer the petite redhead lass over the beer-gut guy.") If a driver is not satisfying a customer, then why not conduct an investigation to get to the bottom of it and take appropriate measures, including disciplining, firing, or disqualifying the offending employee from working a job that he or she can't handle?
Also, please reread my post: I never said that you said that unions are bad. Even now, however, that's what your own words are heavily insinuating with this statement, offered up in the same breath as your unfounded protestation: "I said they can get in the way of progress and can be eliminated by a smart competitor." Huh? Whose progress? In other words, a "smart" competitor is non-union? Sooo... unions aren't bad, just dumb. Got it.
Does that also mean you had to sell your business because you weren't smart enough to run it? And can you honestly blame a union for that? In general, unions have played a key role in creating a thriving economy and the largest middle class the world has ever seen -- a salient point backed up by much historical evidence.
ErinRose: Regarding your statement "It's hard to say exactly when greed actually got a foothold in humanity" I can highly recomment two great books that shed a lot of light on that very question. One is "Heirarchy in the Forest" by Christopher Boehm. The other is "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. You can get an overview by googling the titles on Amazon. Great reads if you haven't read them.
When I think about greed, the convergence of Ayn Rand, and The Art of War come to mind. It's hard to say exactly when greed actually got a foothold in humanity. I can't help but wonder if it has been there all along, or is it some kind of Manchurian Candidate that only manifests at certain times under certain conditions? I was watching a B&W the other night (which I highly recommend to prompt a new perspective on our current quagmire,) on YT. It's called, The President's Mystery (1936) Mystery. Watch this and then tell me what you think.
DRC2, You are again drifting off into la la land. You know damn well the employer cannot selectively pay one union worker more money for doing the same job as a slacker. You are also aware that older drivers can bump off the delivery routes of a younger who has established a relationship with the customer and the customer wishes to retain him/her on that route.
Please stop with the bullshit. I did not say unions are bad, I said they can get in the way of progress and can be eliminated by a smart competitor.
Go back in your stall, I will call you when I need you to come out for a carrot. Your desire to be right all the time is indicitive of one who has spent too much time in their parents basement.
Diane. A union seeks to quantify and qualify the exact duties that an employer expects from an employee, incorporating whatever flexibility is required by the nature of the business, and then negotiates a wage scale based on those duties. Please quit blaming unions for the low pay that too many employers invariably seek in their race to the bottom.
Also, please cite any clause in any union contract that prevents employers from raising the pay scale of those primary duties or from paying an individual extra for performing extraduties beyond the scope of their original job description.
One of the main tenets of unionization is that everyone should receive the same pay for the same job -- once their training period has been successfully completed. (Favoritism in the workforce, especially when it violates the principle of equal pay for equal work, is highly unethical and unacceptable!) If someone can't perform the duties on par with what is expected then prove it and fire them -- or weed them out during their initial training period, which most union-negotiated contracts allow employers to do freely without conducting an investigation. That's what a trial period is for and why it should pay less than a fully qualified employee.
Again, please cite any clause in any union contract clause that prevents an employer from exercising their right to retain or fire employees for not performing their duties sufficiently.
Actually it was 2009. The first year of the Obama presidency. If the Pentagon starting giving the owners money, it was the Democrats and the Obama administration, not Republicans....better have your facts straight before you speak.
That's the truth! Companies doing business in this country are profitting on our socialized infrastructure -- a publicly educated workforce, water and sewer sysyems, electrical grids, highways and bridges, fire departments, police, military, the court system, and on and on.
These are goodies largely paid for by the same workers who disreputable employers are quick to marginalize. The imperatives of the so-called "free" market dictate that most wealth should accrue at the top and that workers should have no rights or say in how the economy should be structured. Damn the People!
Kend. Thanks for clarifying your perspective as a foreign employer, one who follows the law and would not hire undocumented immigrants. Those who do should be caught, sent to prison, and forced to sell their businesses. The main reason undocumented foreigners illegally overstay their visas (the primary method of entry) is because illegal employers are giving them jobs in their mad race to the bottom of the wage scale.
Also, it's quite understandable that, as an employer, you would prefer not to have a union. That is not untypical of most employers who want to maintain uncontested control over their employees and who do not want the extra hassle and expense of ceding that power.
Naturally, every point you've made is from the sole perspective of a business owner (which I respect); however, there are equally valid points made from the perspective of employees. Besides unions, how else can those points be taken seriously and how else can workers' rights be respected and guaranteed in this dog-eat-dog world of ruthless, free-wheeling market capitaism, where revolving-door political cronyism and mega-monopolies are the primary forces controlling our destiny?
A strong middle class emerges when workers' rights are on the same footing as their boss's. A healthy economy has a strong middle class with lots of money to buy the products and services that businesses provide. All wealth is derived from labor and from consumers, who are one in the same.
BTW, no union ever prevents employers from firing workers who can't or won't perform their duties properly. None. The point is not to allow a totalitarian boss to take away another human being's livlihood on a whim without just cause. If to conduct an honest investigation to determine whether or not there is just cause to fire or to otherwise decipline a worker is "hard" ...well, it should be!
I wonder where Jared and "Barbie" are? I have been told that Muller is a honorable man, (although still a Republican), by some who really should know that went to Ivy League schools and in the know of souls they may have been associated with. Jury still out on that for me. I think that the charges being "sealed" and releasing that on a Friday night... (No; sorry, not releasing, but CNN says they were charges, yet sealed last I checked not confirmed by MSNBC). Sharpening pitchforks yet? I say, they gonna be a couple of sleepless nights for a bunch of traitors! If "Jared and Barbie are in Dubai", I dare say they will cast shaddow on "Merican soil" ever again! (not a misspelling, an attempt to communicate with those I saw with "merican and christian flags" mounted in the beds of pickup trucks parading all around the South before they elected these fascist!
To say "are the wholly owned shills of some very dirty industries" is only about the Republicans is very unfair. The Democrats are just as bad. The whole system is corrupt. The Clinton's are at the top of the list. Hiding behind a foundation that helps the poor, which is a very good cause, only to take massive amounts of money out and fly around in private jets on the foundation's dime. It is brilliant. Who would ever question a worthy charity well besides kend. They even made back door deals with Russia and Iran to funnel cash into the foundation. Look at Chelsea Clinton's net worth now that is greed
$15 million. Chelsea Clinton earned her net worth through her career at the consulting firm of McKinsey & Company, as well as Avenue Capital Group and she is also on the board of the School for American Ballet.
Really consulting? Where is the media on this one. Sanders will be next.
The administration is not ignoring our wants and needs. They are always studying them. Analyzing the best way to convey their concerns for us convincingly. Making it sound fresh. Outright lying, but leaving enough wiggle room to walk it back a little here and there. It's become a science. Favorite lines? "We will be looking into that," and "thank you."
Without a draft the military has to do something to recruit. They have marketing departments and do marketing research. The academies supply most of the officers. They provide excellent education for free and pay you while you get it, for 4 to 6 years of paid service. The recruits are mostly from the poor that have few other options. Recently Trumped signed an executive order to bring back 1500 retired Air Force pilots. This order also left it open to bring back more retirees in all branches as needed.
Ou812 I brought the vintage Victorian door knobs including Windsor pattern mortise lock set secured in a fine velvet drawstring sack in case you want to see them.
Here is Aunt Clara
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/c3/7b/6cc37bc8deee73cf595dc908737c7e5a.jpg
This column will change your life
Don’t get caught in the monkey trap
‘The monkey is trapped not by anything physical, but by an idea, unable to see that a principle that served him well has become lethal’
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/14/how-to-avoid-monkey-trap-oliver-burkeman
Maybe if one were to try some 'out of the box' technique they could try treating the slacker differently whether that means an increase in pay or acting more respectfully to them, treating them as a valued part of the company, finding a key role for them to succeed in, it would be a win win situation and drive the once slacker employee into one of the best overall performers. Somehow those sitting in fat cat positions feel all powerful for no reason, hurting themselves in the end; some having to sell their company who then point fingers and placing blame on anything but themselves.
The December 2016 Presidential report on Artificial Intelligence, Automation, and the Economy states that "Advancements in computer vision and related technologies have made the feasibility of fully automated vehicles (AVs), which do not require a human driver... over roughly the next decade or two... 47 percent of U.S. jobs are at risk of being replaced by AI technologies and computerization." furthermore, "Growing and sustaining the middle class requires strong labor unions. Labor unions help to build the middle class and have been critical in restoring the link between hard work and opportunity so the benefits of economic growth can be more broadly shared. Unions have been at the forefront of establishing the 40-hour work week and the weekend, eliminating child labor laws, and establishing fair benefits and decent wages. Policymakers should explore ways to empower worker voice in the workplace through strengthening protections for organizing and creating new and innovative ways for workers to make their voices heard."
And; I was glad that other ones are referring to these people as Fascist! Call them what they are......... Good Job! Big omission here... The Rebel "stars and bars battle flag was usually the biggest". Guess they didn't know there was another that represented the true confederacy..... Usually I would say "but; bless their hearts". Done with that. This is so critical for humanity now. The bastard got the ball!
#21 - Right on!
Great points being made on this thread.
Runaway greed, runaway war, runaway fascism is the zeitgeist of the new era, same as the old era. Human nature has not advanced, only time -- and now we're running out of it.
Here's a link to The President's Mystery:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFEBexihBGk
Thanks, Erin.
Leave it to a troll that uses a misogynist, sexually demeaning to women icon for his site ID, to nit-pick about 2008 or 2009, when had he read Thom's link, he would have seen that the dates referred to in the article, were all well within the Obama presidency.
But of course, that is not the question. Does he presume that Obama had time or even the inclination to take a fine tooth comb to every detail of the massive Pentagon budget. Aren't we supposed to at least think that those that have risen to the highest levels of the military should have earned some degree of trust? True they abused this trust, to peruse a nationalistic, fascist agenda counter to the spirit of our constitution. But it was their duty to preserve that trust rather than Obama to second guess every minute detail.
And to be honest, Obama may well have approved it anyway, considering the extreme patriotic fervor that had swept the country after 911. But we are not seeking to forgive Obama, Bush, Trump or any president that approved or went along with this Pentagon policy. We are pointing it out to highlight the dangerous direction that out nation has moved toward to implement a militaristic, propagandized, unconstitutional, oligarchy that favors money and power above all.
For Decades they have always favored scientists that sold themselves to the corporations and hated the ones who told the truth. Now they have the absolute power to do so. There's not money in the truth.
Him and Greg Palast, who is virtually blackballed by America's "corpse media" (to borrow your phrase).
deepspace #4: Yep, all great info. Krugman always speaks truth to power...which is why you rarely see him on shows like Meet the Press.
Gee, Diane, so angry and insulting! "I feel your pain." (And Bubba does too.) All I did was attempt to contest your points and submit reasonable (I thought anyway) counterpoints. I'm sorry that a critique of your statements and another viewpoint is apparently so difficult to handle without losing it and resorting to ad hominem attacks.
It's not that I have a pyscho-mumbo-jumbo "desire to be right all the time" (I don't.); it's that you obviously failed to get past your anger enough to fully comprehend what I was trying to get at -- or, if you did, to mischaracterize it.
Wouldn't the best solution be just to fire an incorrigible "slacker" rather than to seek pay inequality that invariably sows resentment and discord among workers? Agree or disagree, isn't that the meat of this particular issue?
Also, please show where I said or alluded to the non-fact that an employer could "selectively pay one union worker more money for doing the same job as a slacker." I do know "damn well" that is most definitely not true and would never have suggested otherwise. What I don't know though is if you create straw man arguments unconsciously or deliberately.
In fact I clearly stated the opposite case, "One of the main tenets of unionization is that everyone should receive the same pay for the same job..." Nothing stops an employer, however, from increasing the pay scale for job categories -- prescribed duties negotiated with the union -- to attract quality workers, or to have different rates of pay for different jobs.
Yes, the needs of a customer should come first in any business, but should that motto also extend to a customer having a say in the relationship an employer has with an employee?
For example, Wall Mart is a non-union shop; should a customer be able to dictate to management which cashiers they should place at the cash register? ("I prefer the petite redhead lass over the beer-gut guy.") If a driver is not satisfying a customer, then why not conduct an investigation to get to the bottom of it and take appropriate measures, including disciplining, firing, or disqualifying the offending employee from working a job that he or she can't handle?
Also, please reread my post: I never said that you said that unions are bad. Even now, however, that's what your own words are heavily insinuating with this statement, offered up in the same breath as your unfounded protestation: "I said they can get in the way of progress and can be eliminated by a smart competitor." Huh? Whose progress? In other words, a "smart" competitor is non-union? Sooo... unions aren't bad, just dumb. Got it.
Does that also mean you had to sell your business because you weren't smart enough to run it? And can you honestly blame a union for that? In general, unions have played a key role in creating a thriving economy and the largest middle class the world has ever seen -- a salient point backed up by much historical evidence.
ErinRose: Regarding your statement "It's hard to say exactly when greed actually got a foothold in humanity" I can highly recomment two great books that shed a lot of light on that very question. One is "Heirarchy in the Forest" by Christopher Boehm. The other is "Collapse" by Jared Diamond. You can get an overview by googling the titles on Amazon. Great reads if you haven't read them.
When I think about greed, the convergence of Ayn Rand, and The Art of War come to mind. It's hard to say exactly when greed actually got a foothold in humanity. I can't help but wonder if it has been there all along, or is it some kind of Manchurian Candidate that only manifests at certain times under certain conditions? I was watching a B&W the other night (which I highly recommend to prompt a new perspective on our current quagmire,) on YT. It's called, The President's Mystery (1936) Mystery. Watch this and then tell me what you think.
maybe not today or even tomorrow, but soon the corporations will want to search your property for the weapons they are afraid you we be acquiring!
There everywhere, everywhere....!
DRC2, You are again drifting off into la la land. You know damn well the employer cannot selectively pay one union worker more money for doing the same job as a slacker. You are also aware that older drivers can bump off the delivery routes of a younger who has established a relationship with the customer and the customer wishes to retain him/her on that route.
Please stop with the bullshit. I did not say unions are bad, I said they can get in the way of progress and can be eliminated by a smart competitor.
Go back in your stall, I will call you when I need you to come out for a carrot. Your desire to be right all the time is indicitive of one who has spent too much time in their parents basement.
Diane. A union seeks to quantify and qualify the exact duties that an employer expects from an employee, incorporating whatever flexibility is required by the nature of the business, and then negotiates a wage scale based on those duties. Please quit blaming unions for the low pay that too many employers invariably seek in their race to the bottom.
Also, please cite any clause in any union contract that prevents employers from raising the pay scale of those primary duties or from paying an individual extra for performing extra duties beyond the scope of their original job description.
One of the main tenets of unionization is that everyone should receive the same pay for the same job -- once their training period has been successfully completed. (Favoritism in the workforce, especially when it violates the principle of equal pay for equal work, is highly unethical and unacceptable!) If someone can't perform the duties on par with what is expected then prove it and fire them -- or weed them out during their initial training period, which most union-negotiated contracts allow employers to do freely without conducting an investigation. That's what a trial period is for and why it should pay less than a fully qualified employee.
Again, please cite any clause in any union contract clause that prevents an employer from exercising their right to retain or fire employees for not performing their duties sufficiently.
Actually it was 2009. The first year of the Obama presidency. If the Pentagon starting giving the owners money, it was the Democrats and the Obama administration, not Republicans....better have your facts straight before you speak.
http://dailysnark.com/nfl-teams-didnt-stand-national-anthem-2009/
That's the truth! Companies doing business in this country are profitting on our socialized infrastructure -- a publicly educated workforce, water and sewer sysyems, electrical grids, highways and bridges, fire departments, police, military, the court system, and on and on.
These are goodies largely paid for by the same workers who disreputable employers are quick to marginalize. The imperatives of the so-called "free" market dictate that most wealth should accrue at the top and that workers should have no rights or say in how the economy should be structured. Damn the People!
@#12 Legend, tell us more about the "crappy jobs".
One of the big problems with right to work for less shops is that they usually pay worthy workers lower wages.
Kend. Thanks for clarifying your perspective as a foreign employer, one who follows the law and would not hire undocumented immigrants. Those who do should be caught, sent to prison, and forced to sell their businesses. The main reason undocumented foreigners illegally overstay their visas (the primary method of entry) is because illegal employers are giving them jobs in their mad race to the bottom of the wage scale.
Also, it's quite understandable that, as an employer, you would prefer not to have a union. That is not untypical of most employers who want to maintain uncontested control over their employees and who do not want the extra hassle and expense of ceding that power.
Naturally, every point you've made is from the sole perspective of a business owner (which I respect); however, there are equally valid points made from the perspective of employees. Besides unions, how else can those points be taken seriously and how else can workers' rights be respected and guaranteed in this dog-eat-dog world of ruthless, free-wheeling market capitaism, where revolving-door political cronyism and mega-monopolies are the primary forces controlling our destiny?
A strong middle class emerges when workers' rights are on the same footing as their boss's. A healthy economy has a strong middle class with lots of money to buy the products and services that businesses provide. All wealth is derived from labor and from consumers, who are one in the same.
BTW, no union ever prevents employers from firing workers who can't or won't perform their duties properly. None. The point is not to allow a totalitarian boss to take away another human being's livlihood on a whim without just cause. If to conduct an honest investigation to determine whether or not there is just cause to fire or to otherwise decipline a worker is "hard" ...well, it should be!