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Correctomundo on Goodman and Klein!
Good one, deepspace. I get so tired of listening to the ditto-heads make these inane arguments, and they are so smug and convinced that they've got all the correct answers. I question if they have two live brain cells to rub together if they truly believe the rubbish they spout. If they did the research on this, and were intellectually honest, the truth would come glaring out at them. But they wilfully insist on adhering to the the "Fux News" nonsense, and intellectual honesty is not in their vocabulary. Love the Wellstone quote; thanks.
ErinRose,
Well said!
I podcast Amy Goodman and heard that segment also. She is truly a straight shooter, an accomplished journalist, and one of my heroines. Ditto for Naomi Klein -- a must read!
Kend,
By allowing yourself to be fooled by Fux News, you are squarely on the wrong side of history. But thanks for giving us a platform and springboard. It's no coincidence that my responses happen to reflect stopgap's, because sometimes objective reality is so obvious that it screams out -- there for the taking by anyone with enough interest and energy to delve in. Nobody owns the truth.
Why don't you join us? A pristine mountain lake may be colder than an artificial swimming pool full of toxic chemicals and warm piss, but it's immensely more refreshing, invigorating and, well, natural. You don't need to shower either, like after soaking an hour in the Fux News cesspool.
The whole point of brainwash is that you don't realize that you have been thoroughly conditioned, which is proven by the lies, disinformation, and stereotypical attitudes against the poor, less fortunate, and less capable than yourself, which you so arrogantly and shamelessly packed into your rambling paragraphs. It is particularly offensive to attack Jane Sanders without a shred of evidence other than what oozes out of the right-wing gutter.
BTW, that's called "dump trucking," a debate technique perfected by Karl Rove, whereby it's nearly impossible to sort through the myriad of falsehoods without spending an inordinate amount of time lost in the weeds.
I'll just pick out a few of the more pertinent ones and try to be brief:
Obama did not add 7 trillion (wildly exaggerated, I suspect) to the debt. Besides, Congress (specifically the House), not the Executive Branch, controls the purse strings. What Obama did do, as stopgap said, was force Congress to include Bush's 7-year, heretofore hidden war debt of monumental proportion on the balance sheet -- wars very popular, mind you, with nearly all the corporatists be they Democratic or Republican.
Furthermore, the Republican congress blocked all infrastructure spending proposals introduced by Obama and the Democrats, along with every other attempt to invest in the economy and jobs. Republican leadership was wholly committed to make Obama fail, even it meant screwing over the American People (When the Tea Party Came to Town -- Robert Draper).
Despite this unassailable wall of resistance, the Obama presidency not only managed to steer the economy out of the depths of the Republican Great Recession but also presided over the creation of more than 11 million jobs -- an expansion that continues to this day, for which Trump is falsely trying to take credit and, at the same time, is stupidly pushing for right-wing policies that will no doubt lead to another major contraction in the near future.
http://www.npr.org/2017/01/07/508600239/what-kind-of-jobs-president-has-obama-been-in-8-charts
Your whole "free stuff" meme, which wingers love to pin on Bernie, reveals an embarrassing ignorance of the leading issues with which the majority of Americans (including Republicans) fully agree, according to nearly every poll. Two of them, free education and free healthcare, are perhaps of the most concern and the most beneficial for society as a whole.
"Free" means at the point of consumption for the individual, not how programs are ultimately financed. Obviously we must pay for them. The basic questions are how much and to whom. For instance, would you rather pay $700 to a $1,000 a month in "premiums" to a private, for-profit insurance company for a policy shot full of holes with a dizzying array of paperwork, or about $300 a month for the average American worker (or possibly even less, if everybody in the entire country pays their fair share according to their income -- read billionaires) for a tax-funded program that cuts out the unnecessary, greedy "middle-man" and that simply delivers the healthcare you need without the hassle?
A well-paid, less-stressed, and healthy workforce is much more productive, is it not? You, as a business owner, should know that. Under the present system of greed-mongering, Americans pay nearly twice as much for much less healthcare than the rest of the Western world.
Why in the hell should anyone in their right mind settle for such an upside-down, backward system? After all, the Constitution clearly stipulates that it is our taxes and our government. Therefore, the People through their representatives in Congress should have ultimate control over our priorities, meaning how and where our money should be best spent. (Fact: The biggest percent of each tax dollar now goes to corporate welfare and the tycoons at the top, not to the middle class or to the poor.) So, rather than subsidize billionaires and their bloated cash-cow corporations, we want our taxes to benefit us, not just the already obscenely wealthy "economic royalists" (FDR).
IOW, f*ck the billionaires and their goddamn fascist oligarchy!!! Revolt! Revolt! Revolt!
Case in point: The fastest-growing class of "new-money" greedy bastards are the so-called "defense" contractors who profit on blood and endless warfare, sucking on the government teat while ensuring an endless supply of "enemies" to keep them in business until the end of the world (at this rate, soon upon us).
We are the richest nation on Earth with plenty of taxpayer cash to throw around on armies and navies and air forces and tanks and ships and planes and guns and bullets and cannons and bombs and missiles and, and, and...
But on education and healthcare? Hell no! We're poor as church mice!
For society to live and prosper, we must be highly moral beings. History demonstrates quite clearly that greed, selfishness, and the extreme concentration of wealth and power always leads to suffering, death, and the breakdown of democratic institutions. Why can't you see that? Answer: Fux News, its satellites of clones, and billionaire-funded propaganda.
"We all do better when we all do better." - Paul Wellstone
And with all of this, America sleeps on. Yes, we have groups forming, but they are nothing compared to what's needed; small handfuls of dedicated activists, while the bulk of America continues to drink its beer and watch the ball games. Americans are unmoved, and remain wilfully oblivious to the rising temperature in the frog pot. I was watching Democracy Now! and Amy Goodman had Naomi Klein on talking about her new book, "No Is Not Enough"; which is a plan for combatting the coming dictatorship. Goodman's show had video footage of the full scale protests of whole countries out in the streets rejecting the take-over of the respective fascist/authoritarian/totalitarian/dictatorship governments. But for some reason, Americans are so willing to accommodate all incremental advances of the inevitable horror that is coming our way. I just read an article about one of the Red States which is cutting their minimum wage from $10.00, and hour to $7.00, an hour. This should have put every resident of that state out into the streets demonstrating, and what did we hear? Not a peep. When the oligarchs are marching us into the ovens at 50 years old (John Cornyn (R-TX) bill to euthanize all those who have "outlived their usefulness") are Americans going to just go quietly and not make a fuss? How did Americans get to be so unbelievably stupid? It must be the chem-trails or something in the drinking water. Sleep on, America, the worst it yet to be.
Again Kend proves Thom's point. "Rest in peace King Ralph" Kend doesn't want a president, he wants a king.
You might find it hard to believe Kend. But I too am a businessman, owning my own business since 1989. And I'm smart enough not to advertise my political preference with potential customers. I wouldn't hide it if asked, but business is business and it's hard enough without putting up unnecessary roadblocks. I even have an occasional business partner and friend that thinks exactly like you. And I know there is no way in hell that I'm going to change their minds. Que sera sera!
But I personally don't sit around blaming others for my failures nor do I sit around obsessing about the possibility that some poor schmuck might get something for free. And I certainly wouldn't let it drive me to abet traitors or use it as an excuse to bring down our democracy. I'm willing to accept the fact that the world is complex and many people have special needs that I'm lucky enough not to have to endure. And if the price of achieving a functional society, is putting up with a few deadbeats. So be it!
Most progressives such as Thom or Rachel Maddow beg Republicans to come on their shows. But few have the guts to stand up to real questions that hold them accountable so they run to Fox for softballs. When they do come on Thom or Rachel's shows, they are thanked profusely for having the courage to appear on their show.
Nor do I confuse facts with opinion. Saying that all news is just opinion is nothing but a cop-out. And by the way, the first 7 trillion dollars that Obama added to the debt, was the debt that the Bush administration ran up for the Iraq war where they used an accounting trick to avoid having it appear on the national debt. But it was debt, nonetheless.
But why am I wasting my time without someone that cannot discern fact from opinion?
Again, Kend has proven we are past the point of no return!!!
No apology needed. First of all my company is far from a IBM or Ford. My wife and I oversee the whole thing and we have not done over 10 million a year in sales yet. Hopefully soon. So CEO is not used in our company. Almost all of our employees are on a base plus commission contract. We take on summer high school students through a work experience program the school puts on. Even they get payed this way. Most it is their first job and they are mentored by a older employees. Even they get minimum wage plus a performance bonus at the end of the summer. Usually about 25% of what they made if they where always on time and worked reasonably hard. To answer your question. If it is a private company, whether owned by a individual or share holders I believe it is none of my business what they make. I personally would never invest in a company that payed anyone that much but if someone else is stupid enough to pay them them then who am I to judge. Pension plans who do that kind of investing should be paying attention to this and avoid them as they have billions. If it is a government corporation then no because they are payed by tax payers that is totally different I also don't think none tax paying charities should except that ratio of payment either
Kend, my apologies. That was uncalled for on my part. Sorry.
I applaud your having built a multinational company on sheer grit. That can't be easy to do.
But I have friends that share your views (from what I've seen of them), a couple of whom have succeeded mightily financially. They seem to belong to that club that holds strongly to the concept of "meritocracy".
I've personally worked for corporations the size of Boeing down to several startups, and I know from personal experience that the "corporate culture" breeds a level of contempt that propagates from the top down. I'm curious; do you believe that a CEO in any corporation deserves to be compensated at a ratio of 600 to 1 relative to the average employee in their company?" How does it work in yours?
Outback. First of all there is no such thing as news anymore. I didn't say it was news. They are all option magazines. I said I like Fox because at least there is healthy debate so I listen to both sides and make my own decisions. But I am the Idiot. I guess your right, Bernie supporters like 20 year old students know so much more than a guy who started with nothing, and only high school education and a strong back. Left home at 18 not at 30 in his parents basement playing video games with a twelve year old from Cambodia. I probably didn't learn anything building a multi million dollar company in four different cities and two different countries , well I raised my children and helped with my grandchildren. Probably didn't learn Jack when I travelled two 24 different countries. My apologies for my stupidity. Maybe I just sell it all and collect some phoney disability cheese like my neighbor a lay around watching The View and bitch about the rich and smoke weed. after hurling all that disrespectful poop at me I thank you. Maybe it is time to say the hell with all my hard working employees and call it a day. Any one have any suggestions where I should go first and don't say Hell I am I business owner I have already been their.
Trump's Korean twin brother is successfully pushing Crooked Donny's buttons. Putin's plan is unfolding well. Who's going to stop his expansion into Eastern Europe???? ..not NATO...LOL
The point of no return happened when we allowed Putin to install an unstable individual into a position of enormous power he's completely unqualified for. We have a spoiled ten year old in charge of the most powerful military machine in the history of the world. Well guess what, the god damn Kochs are going to get burned too...nobody will escape what's coming.
Kend, you are an utter fucking idiot. If you depend on faux news to get your information, you are a triple fucking idiot! What makes people like you think that "owning a business" qualifies you for anything other than some genetic predisposition for enhancing your own economic well being? You people are very good at processing every tidbit of right wing pap to make your self centered little case. You disgust me. I'm sorry, I try not to get too personal on this blog, but I am sick and tired of your type.
I am not brain washed I am a business owner like all the business owners of the stops you made stopgap and we know how difficult it is to make a go of it out there that is why we listen to Fox. At least Fox will have people from the left on to try and plead their case and in many cases they do. All the Democratic networks like CNN, NBC, MSNBC actually who are we kidding, everyone but Fox never has anyone from the right. Business owners know it is easy to promise free frickin everything but we realize some has to pay for it. You all know Obama put you about 7 TRILLION more in debt. He has absolutely nothing to show for it. Anyone get a new bridge. Highway. No because the left promises the world and delivers nothing. Your beloved Bernie has been promising young people free shit for thirty years and hasn't delivered a thing. He did well though. Apparently so did his wife if they don't lock her up for fraud. We had a guy like Trump years ago, Ralph Klein. He was a little rough around the edges but the best politician I have ever see. Rest in peace King Ralph. I think time will show Trump will make America great again. Except for twitter he has done some good things.
Kend,
Clinton's campaign may have spent more than Trump's, but hidden, outside PAC money -- not campaign cash -- is what mainly fuels our election cycles nowadays, manipulates public opinion, and determines who "wins."
Billionaire networks also fund massive election fraud in key states. If 7.5 million (at least) Democrats would not have been illegally purged from the rolls in 2016, and millions more blocked by voter suppression laws, or otherwise intimidated, Trump would not have "won" the Electoral College. (The majority of people -- remember us? -- certainly did not vote for this loser.) Fraud is not winning; it's stealing. We don't tolerate such bad behavior in sports; why should we in politics?
Trump is not a "business man" either; he is a serial failure, a scion who squandered his daddy's money, declared bankruptcy six times, and screwed everybody who has ever worked for him, invested with him, or loaned to him. In fact, he was (and is) so over-leveraged that American banks will no longer touch him (ergo, Deutsche Bank and corrupt Russian oligarchs). He couldn't even manage two fleas across his fat ass without sending both of them in the hole. Now, he is a fake "president" in the process of bankrupting what was, once upon a time, a great democracy.
Please provide credible evidence that "he is putting America first Internationally." (Hint: there is none.) By all accounts, this no-nothing buffoon is a complete embarrassment who, in only five months, has alienated our staunchest allies and has made America the laughing stock of the world on every front, in the eyes of both our friends and enemies.
Neither has he done anything to improve the lot of the American workers or their families. Thus far, every ounce of energy expended by him and the Republican Party has been to improve the lot of millionaires and billionaires -- including himself and his businesses -- at the expense of the poor and the middle class.
And for someone who, as you say, "isn't looking for favors from anyone," he and his family business sure seem to be gorging on taxpayer largess, as they cash in on his "new and improved" brand around the country and the world. How much do his weekend golf junkets to Mar-a-Lago cost taxpayers? How much when he maintained his wife and kid at the Trump Tower in New York? How much for security when he habitually travels around campaigning on taxpayer time for 2020, instead of doing the People's business? (He just can't get enough of all those adoring, preselected crowds -- and fat-cat donors!)
"Fine tuning?!" LMAO! This rusted-out wreck of a human being is beyond total overhaul, not even worth his weight in fat!
Here is your great white savior in his own words:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/29/us/politics/fact-checking-president-trump-through-his-first-100-days.html
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html
You're smarter than that, Kend. Quit twisting your mind with Fux News lies and rehashing their tortured critiques. "That is getting real old."
We have to thank Kend for proving Thom's point. His simplistic reasoning, looseness with the facts and willingness to look the other way while Trump mounts a crusade to enrich himself and his billionaire buddies that are hellbent on making the US a total oligarchy, is a perfect example of the point Thom is making.
Even as the facts pile up proving the Trump/Russia connections, Kend and his ilk are perfectly willing to ignore any possible treasons that led to Trump's ascension to the corporatist throne. This is not surprising considering that much of the success of Trump's campaign was his willingness to appeal to racism and prejudice. Kend likes to ignore the fact that his "winning the election" was only made possible by the fact that the founding fathers had to accede to the demands of the southern slave holding states by adding the Electoral College to the constitution. In fact Kend! Trump actually lost the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes and was only able to take the oath of office, thanks only to the capitulation of the founding fathers.
And how did these same states reward the founding fathers? They committed the treasonous action of seceding from the Union resulting in the Civil War.
Of course, had Trump won by 3 million votes and lost the Electoral College, Kend would be screaming about the overthrow of the government and Fox News would be 24/7 declaring the election void and screaming for the Supreme Court to again declare a Republican the victor.
Maybe Clinton spent twice as much as Trump? But Kend is perfectly willing to ignore the many millions of dollars of free coverage Trump's campaign appearances received via the mainstream media. Kend is also more than willing to ignore the fact that a single, so called news network, i.e. Fox News, is completely committed to seeing that Republicans get elected and is perfectly willing to abet any treasons to achieve that goal. Kend, of course, is more than willing to dismiss any affects on the election by Republican election frauds such as "Operation Cross Check" "Voter Suppression" "Extreme Gerrymandering" etc., all the while screaming about the implausible fantasy of "Voter Fraud."
I just finished a twenty some state road trip around the US, and as a result popped into a number of fast food restaurants and other such public places to use their wifi and bathrooms and occasionally downing a burger. In virtually all of the restaurants I stopped at, Fox News was on the TV. I hate to be a conspiracy monger, but as Trump's presidency plunders into one incompetence and scandal after another, no doubt the oligarchs feel renewed pressure to divert the attention of Americans away from the facts and up the ante of propaganda. Also, having Fox News on as many public TVs as possible, gives Fox an appearance of normality and credibility that is totally unearned and undeserved. Maybe it's just a coincidence that Fox is suddenly on all of these TV's or maybe I just haven't noticed before… but??? However, there is nothing I wouldn't put past Republicans to promote their corporatist, fascist agenda.
Finally, Kend. If Trump is such a great businessman, let him release his taxes and prove it. But of course, that too will not happen. Because for Trump to do that would reveal that he is just a great conman. Not that that would dissuade his supporters.
Is American past the point of no return? It doesn't look good!
Dear Thom,
The dumming down of America, to the sour tune of 53,000,000 voters polling for
No. 45. 8,000,000 of those were formerly in President Obama's camp. My god, I' m
so dismayed, I' m without words. The world is obviously watching and wondering.
What were they thinking ? As a country, I hope we'll come out into the sunlight
again. Unfortunately, I'm highly doubtful. Lastly, I'm aghast how little people know
about past history. Therein lies the crux.
Respectfully,
Mike Marlowe
Yes, we are past the point of no return! The obvious voter suppression that put the republicans in control of the local, state and federal seats is leading to the installation of the Fascist regime to totally destroy the America we have built and that the few rich want to enslave us then the world.
The only way out now is a full revolution and execution of the hidden rich controlling it all.
A question for Kend:
Do you know what a snake oil salesman is?
You should listen to what Bernie Sanders has to say about tRump.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/3/bernie_sanders_on_resisting_trump_why
How can you say that the corporate billionaires are controlling the elections when Clinton spent twice as much as Trump and still lost. That is getting real old Thom. The reason Trump was elected was because he isn't a seasoned politician he is a business man that isn't looking for favors from anyone. True he may need some fine tuning but he is putting America first Internationally which has not happened in a long time.
Sadly, I believe that you are correct in your analysis of the lost cause of our once vibrant democracy. When the Republicans loaded the SCOTUS and they allowed Citizens United, it was game over. Dark money rules. Senator Sanders Grass Roots $27 per Revolution was our last hope, and now he's throwing in the towel. Let call a spade a spade and admit that we now have a full blown, classical fascist government: a monolithic consortium of formal government, finance, military, religion, education,MSM, and what am I leaving out of the bundle of sticks, the fascies? Rome got nothin' on us! The American people are historically under-educated, most can't read at a 3rd grade level, MSM feeds us pablum and we consume it voraciously. Fox News is not an aberration but nearing a standard for the "industry", at least our here in the hinterlands, where I live. The hippie looking clerk in my favorite cheese shop doesn't "believe" in clamate change and the Wisconsin state government won't allow the term to be used, but it's rained every single day for the past two months and we continue to set temp records. Anybody got a thermometer? Anybody know how to read one? Oh, that's right, nobody can read. Ah, let's all go to the Summer League basball game and root for our local team. What the heck!
I have a way out of this mess: weoccupythe.us
Check it out ...
There is only one possibility for real change: The Green Party.
Enough people have to decide they have had enough of Democratic party promises and Repubilcan party trickle down ideology.
The guy has lost it. The White House must be in control of the staffers.
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/336810/trump-confused-limo/
Happy Brexit 1776!
North Korea launches ICBM. Trumps tweets angry response!!!! Add to the list of things not accomplished by Trump. South Korea needs Natural gas. Russia has Natural Gas in Eastern Russia. Negotiate a deal for a pipeline through North Korea. Win Win. Where is the great negotiator? Tweeting angry reponses.