Ginico 55: Bernie can and will accomplish things the same way the Civil Rights Movement gained traction and fomented change. As President Bernie will have the pulpit/attention of the vast majority, and thus be able to speak truth to power, something we haven't had from a President in a long long time. Armed with the fire of his economic and social justice truth,"We the People," will then need to take to the streets in a non - violent manner and force our elected officials either to follow us or seek further employment...yes, it's that simple.
ginico55; Needless to say It's going to be tough for Bernie to force the Neoliberal leadership of the Democrat Party to back any progressive policies after twenty five years of snuggling up to the Capitalist Right ! This relationship was formed back in the mid to late eighties and initially manifested itself as the DLC (Democrat Leadership Council). An entity that no longer exists but when it did, it's website had a list of charter members that included Bill and Hillary Clinton. There were various rumors floating around at the time that credited Billionaire George Soros with being the father of this movement. It quickly became evident that beyond his list of secret love interests, Bill Clinton, and by association Hillary Clinton, was literally sleeping with the enemy that launched them onto the national political stage ! The Clinton's wasted no time rewarding their supporters with legislation like NAFTA, a major reduction in Depression Era government aid policies that helped the poor, and the obliteration of the Glass-Steagall Act that corrected one of the major problems that led to the Great Depression, no mystery that just eight years after the demise of Glass-Steagall in 1999, we experienced yet another major economic breakdown !
Neoliberalism is an economic/ governing philosophy that has been around for some time, and like many philosophies it has changed with the times. I looked up the current definition of Neoliberalism on Wikipedia last week and was shocked to find that it's current guiding principles were not that far removed from the policies of the late Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, strange times when the preferred platform of the Democrat Leadership closely mirrors that of the Republican Party and has for the past quarter century. If most Democrats are not familiar with this established fact, their going to go into total shock when they realize that their party's leadership has been sleeping with the enemy for twenty five years !
MUCH better are Thom’s shows during which Rightist discussants don’t distract with their beside-the-points badgerings. {I was able to watch this time’s replay without a finger on “fast-forward”.} … Thanks that you tolerate my un-gentlemanly nagging against your Right-infested “Rumble” panels.
Several decades ago my students thought it deliciously ironic that ’twas Multinational Corporations {and not Marxism’s successes} which were causing “the withering away of the state”. … Sure ‘nuff: Many years later, scholars have been continuing this theme, - f’rinstance in this Foreign Affairs essay’s title, “Will the Nation-State Survive Globalization?” {by Martin Wolf, Jan/Feb 2001}. - https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2001-01-01/will-nation-state-survive-globalization
He takes a lot seriously, talking is one thing but doing is the hard part. As long as the House is controlled by Republicans, I think Bernie is a pipe dream that cannot happen. I don't see Republicans rolling over for anything that Bernie is calling for in his revolution.
Tom, I have read Bernie's healthcare plan. I have listened to him on your show for years talking about EVERYTHING that he currently wants to do as President. I look at the number of gerrymandered seats held by Republicans in the House of Representatives that probably will NOT change until after the next census, and the fact that EVERYTHING that Bernie is running on has to come up in the House and be funded. I don't see that happening and Bernie would become as impotent by the Republicans as they have tried to do to President Obama. Also, I don't think that Bernie can win nationally. I don't think that the revolution is going to change a thing as long as the Republicans are in control of the House. Also, his own State has retreated on single payer, stating that they cannot afford it. Taking all of this into consideration, I have decided that I will not support Bernie, that Hillary's expertise has a better chance of getting anything done. I would appreciate any rebuttal on how he will work these miracles, I am willing to listen.
GREAT SHOW THOM! SO TRUE! And, the fact that our economy is not based on caring for each other is where this discussion should go! Socialism is a "We" word. Capitalism a "Me" word. I think we are all done with the "Me" thing. It's no fun.
That said, we act like we are addicted to our "representational Democracy". We have forgotten about direct democracy.
When a Nation relies solely on it's "representatives" to do the right thing, shit happens, it always will.
That is why AMERICA NEEDS a DIRECT DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT for a National Referendum. We the People must create that FOR OURSELVES Because we can and we must.
Bernie could never do that, even though it is the perfect expression for a REAL POLITICAL REVOLUTION. It's something we need as much as we need compassion and justice, if we are to heal this planet of all it's ills. And we must because we can.
"Free to slave trade," is what it should be called. Just like the, "Citizens United," shoud be called, "Corporations United."
These corporate pigs don't care if the people of this country die in poverty. Just as long as they can sell us a McDonald's burger and keep us powerless to do anything about it.
The worst shame is that so many people are blaming all the wrong people for how we were all sold out. They really don't have a clue after forty years of phony patriotism and all the corporate paid for propaganda.
If Trump or any of the other Rethugs make it to the presidency, I'm out of here, Amsterdam, here I come, because this country will be finished.
I would add that we must not forget how Senate Republicans killed the 2012 anti-outsourcing bill.....which would have eliminated tax breaks for employers shipping jobs overseas. Thanks to our anti-democracy, pro-fascist media, hardly any citizens are aware of this bald faced disrespect for those of us who work for a living. Seems to me this is an excellent example of how the Teapublican Party could care less about the 99%. It would be a great issue to bring up in front of all America during the Presidential debates...I'd love to hear how the scoundrels would answer to this in front of a national audience.....!!!!!!!!
How do we trust Hillary or any politician that will change their minds by the way the political winds blow? Hillary stated the TPP was the gold standard for free trade. She was an attorney for Monsanto. Voted to protect them from litigation. Pushed fracking in Eastern Europe instead of green energy. When asked in a recent debate what was the most important issue facing Americans? Her reply was Iran. Bernie's was global warming. This marks the most significant difference. Who out there believes some Persian or Arab living in a cave, on the other side of the planet with an AK and a laptop is more dangerous to their future then global warming? I am more concerned about the wing nut down the block with a Bushmaster and a 100 round clip. If we do not address global warming it is all over for the future for every living thing. Why don't the corporate democrats understand a thermus maximus event and mass extinction?
Branski, Bernie represents ALL working people, not just the middle class.
What I keep trying to explain, that you keep ignoring, is the whole point behind Bernie’s emphasis on the middle class. His point is that the middle class is DISAPPEARING. When the middle class disappears, guess what! You’ve got more people in poverty, stuck among the ranks of the working poor. Bernie doesn’t think anyone working fulltime should be poor. He’s trying to expand the middle class so that more of us have an escape hatch out of poverty and can JOIN the middle class. What in the hell’s wrong with that?! It you are gonna characterize that as a “pep rally for the better-off”, you are completely missing the point.
You keep emphasizing this ideological conflct between the middle class and the poor as if you wanted to keep it that way. In light of how many formerly middle class people have been thrust into poverty, that ideological divide you keep referring to could be outdated. Nothing changes one’s persepctive faster or more radically than being impoverished by circumstances beyond one’s control.
Delster, a corporate take-over translates to CORPORATE FASCISM, which is indeed what these so-called "trade agreements" are about. Bernie's agenda is the only acceptable agenda for anyone concerned about corporations taking over matters of the state, who does not want to live under fascism.
Governments are not corporations and vice versa, and we need to keep it that way. Bernie is the ONLY candidate who takes this issue seriously at all.
I've believed for a long time the cleaverest way to take over a democracy and limit the constitution and rule of law for that matter is by a corporate take over. That is part of what free trade agreements are about. I like Bernie Sanders and I like his message , but going up against corporate rule is a tall order to fulfill. One thing the free world has really got to keep an eye on is technology. www.businessinsider.com/technology-is-destroying-jobs-..
This is a corporate virus that in reality is fascism
We have fought against this stuff in two world wars, it rears its Medusa like ugly head again and I now can't get that people don't see it for what it is
This is true manifestation of greed and evil against the greater good
“Excess of liberty, whether it lies in state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.” Plato
Government allows corporate excess by the means of corruption
There are, at least, seven types of socialism, so when a critic uses the term in a general sense let's try to clarify which type of socialism is being referenced. Following are a number of varieties of socialism:
1. Democratic Socialism
2. Trotskyism/Communism
3. Utopian Socialism
4. Libertarian Socialism
5. Market Socialism (see China)
6. Eco-Socialism
7. Christian Socialism
Lest we neglect the fact that capitalism is not a unitary concept, here follows a few varieties:
1. Oligarchic Capitalism
2. State-Guided (regulated) Capitalism
3. Corporate Capitalism
4. Fascistic Capitalism
Let's note that three of the above would end our democratic form of governance has we know it.
Public health officials said most of the gas is dissipating and not causing long-term problems, though many residents have left because they doubt the air is safe. Foul-smelling additives that make highly flammable gas detectable have been blamed for maladies including irritated throats, coughs and respiratory problems.
It depends on how one defines "the vast majority," I guess. Sen. Sanders used to speak out powerfully about US poverty and the need for legitimate poverty relief programs. Through this campaign, he has explicitely stated that he stands with the middle class. The middle class has fallen to less than 50% of the population, so representing them today is a matter of representing a minority of the population. The middle class and poor, of course, have profoundly different perspectives and priorities, and are they are deeply pitted against each other.
The Clintons are considered "centrists" by today's young adults? As in, the president who took an ax to the Great Society and still had time to begin similarly "reforming" the New Deal? And his partner, who dedicated years of work to NAFTA and the TPP? These would have been considered hard right-wingers by previous generations.
I'm not aware of any sizable political progressive presence in the US today. There's nothing new about progressivism. Political progressive ideology is centered on economic policies. The only way to build (or rebuild) an economy is from the bottom up, much like building a house. All we've had since the 1990s is an utterly meaningless pep rally for the better-off, whatever still remains of the middle class. As a result of the very agenda supported by the middle class, they are being phased out, and are now less than 50% of the population.
Consider the message of Democrats and liberals today. They so strongly believe in the success of our deregulated capitalism that they think everyone is able to work, there are jobs for all, therefore no need for poverty relief. That is regressive, not progressive.
Glass Steagall re-newal would not do anything.The SEC and its cohorts were asleep at the switch.They had all of the tools to regulate and did not.
Bernie has great ideas but Hillary is the only one that can get things done.
Ginico 55: Bernie can and will accomplish things the same way the Civil Rights Movement gained traction and fomented change. As President Bernie will have the pulpit/attention of the vast majority, and thus be able to speak truth to power, something we haven't had from a President in a long long time. Armed with the fire of his economic and social justice truth,"We the People," will then need to take to the streets in a non - violent manner and force our elected officials either to follow us or seek further employment...yes, it's that simple.
ginico55; Needless to say It's going to be tough for Bernie to force the Neoliberal leadership of the Democrat Party to back any progressive policies after twenty five years of snuggling up to the Capitalist Right ! This relationship was formed back in the mid to late eighties and initially manifested itself as the DLC (Democrat Leadership Council). An entity that no longer exists but when it did, it's website had a list of charter members that included Bill and Hillary Clinton. There were various rumors floating around at the time that credited Billionaire George Soros with being the father of this movement. It quickly became evident that beyond his list of secret love interests, Bill Clinton, and by association Hillary Clinton, was literally sleeping with the enemy that launched them onto the national political stage ! The Clinton's wasted no time rewarding their supporters with legislation like NAFTA, a major reduction in Depression Era government aid policies that helped the poor, and the obliteration of the Glass-Steagall Act that corrected one of the major problems that led to the Great Depression, no mystery that just eight years after the demise of Glass-Steagall in 1999, we experienced yet another major economic breakdown !
Neoliberalism is an economic/ governing philosophy that has been around for some time, and like many philosophies it has changed with the times. I looked up the current definition of Neoliberalism on Wikipedia last week and was shocked to find that it's current guiding principles were not that far removed from the policies of the late Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, strange times when the preferred platform of the Democrat Leadership closely mirrors that of the Republican Party and has for the past quarter century. If most Democrats are not familiar with this established fact, their going to go into total shock when they realize that their party's leadership has been sleeping with the enemy for twenty five years !
ginico55...Sad to say, I think you're right.
A fundamental rethink of our health care system is going to be necessary; Obamacare is good for what it is, but it's not enough. - Elly Kleinman
Fierce Old Feminists
{… a rhyme …}
Ferociously fierce
are Steinem and Dowd.
My, how they pierce
the younger crowd
of femmes who yearn
not for Hill but for Bern.
==================
MUCH better are Thom’s shows during which Rightist discussants don’t distract with their beside-the-points badgerings. {I was able to watch this time’s replay without a finger on “fast-forward”.} … Thanks that you tolerate my un-gentlemanly nagging against your Right-infested “Rumble” panels.
Several decades ago my students thought it deliciously ironic that ’twas Multinational Corporations {and not Marxism’s successes} which were causing “the withering away of the state”. … Sure ‘nuff: Many years later, scholars have been continuing this theme, - f’rinstance in this Foreign Affairs essay’s title, “Will the Nation-State Survive Globalization?” {by Martin Wolf, Jan/Feb 2001}. - https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2001-01-01/will-nation-state-survive-globalization
The racist Repugs did nothing but screw, from begining to end, our first president who was not white
He takes a lot seriously, talking is one thing but doing is the hard part. As long as the House is controlled by Republicans, I think Bernie is a pipe dream that cannot happen. I don't see Republicans rolling over for anything that Bernie is calling for in his revolution.
Tom, I have read Bernie's healthcare plan. I have listened to him on your show for years talking about EVERYTHING that he currently wants to do as President. I look at the number of gerrymandered seats held by Republicans in the House of Representatives that probably will NOT change until after the next census, and the fact that EVERYTHING that Bernie is running on has to come up in the House and be funded. I don't see that happening and Bernie would become as impotent by the Republicans as they have tried to do to President Obama. Also, I don't think that Bernie can win nationally. I don't think that the revolution is going to change a thing as long as the Republicans are in control of the House. Also, his own State has retreated on single payer, stating that they cannot afford it. Taking all of this into consideration, I have decided that I will not support Bernie, that Hillary's expertise has a better chance of getting anything done. I would appreciate any rebuttal on how he will work these miracles, I am willing to listen.
GREAT SHOW THOM! SO TRUE! And, the fact that our economy is not based on caring for each other is where this discussion should go! Socialism is a "We" word. Capitalism a "Me" word. I think we are all done with the "Me" thing. It's no fun.
That said, we act like we are addicted to our "representational Democracy".
We have forgotten about direct democracy.
When a Nation relies solely on it's "representatives" to do the right thing, shit happens, it always will.
That is why AMERICA NEEDS a DIRECT DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT for a National Referendum. We the People must create that FOR OURSELVES Because we can and we must.
Bernie could never do that, even though it is the perfect expression for a REAL POLITICAL REVOLUTION. It's something we need as much as we need compassion and justice, if we are to heal this planet of all it's ills. And we must because we can.
http://www.thenationalreferendum.org/
"Free to slave trade," is what it should be called. Just like the, "Citizens United," shoud be called, "Corporations United."
These corporate pigs don't care if the people of this country die in poverty. Just as long as they can sell us a McDonald's burger and keep us powerless to do anything about it.
The worst shame is that so many people are blaming all the wrong people for how we were all sold out. They really don't have a clue after forty years of phony patriotism and all the corporate paid for propaganda.
If Trump or any of the other Rethugs make it to the presidency, I'm out of here, Amsterdam, here I come, because this country will be finished.
I would add that we must not forget how Senate Republicans killed the 2012 anti-outsourcing bill.....which would have eliminated tax breaks for employers shipping jobs overseas. Thanks to our anti-democracy, pro-fascist media, hardly any citizens are aware of this bald faced disrespect for those of us who work for a living. Seems to me this is an excellent example of how the Teapublican Party could care less about the 99%. It would be a great issue to bring up in front of all America during the Presidential debates...I'd love to hear how the scoundrels would answer to this in front of a national audience.....!!!!!!!!
Rubio was a Senate Teapublican at the time!
I gave up on labels a long time ago - they mean different things to different people, whatever the dictionary says.
Just the issues, ma'am - to misquote a phrase misattributed to Dragnet.
How do we trust Hillary or any politician that will change their minds by the way the political winds blow? Hillary stated the TPP was the gold standard for free trade. She was an attorney for Monsanto. Voted to protect them from litigation. Pushed fracking in Eastern Europe instead of green energy. When asked in a recent debate what was the most important issue facing Americans? Her reply was Iran. Bernie's was global warming. This marks the most significant difference. Who out there believes some Persian or Arab living in a cave, on the other side of the planet with an AK and a laptop is more dangerous to their future then global warming? I am more concerned about the wing nut down the block with a Bushmaster and a 100 round clip. If we do not address global warming it is all over for the future for every living thing. Why don't the corporate democrats understand a thermus maximus event and mass extinction?
Branski, Bernie represents ALL working people, not just the middle class.
What I keep trying to explain, that you keep ignoring, is the whole point behind Bernie’s emphasis on the middle class. His point is that the middle class is DISAPPEARING. When the middle class disappears, guess what! You’ve got more people in poverty, stuck among the ranks of the working poor. Bernie doesn’t think anyone working fulltime should be poor. He’s trying to expand the middle class so that more of us have an escape hatch out of poverty and can JOIN the middle class. What in the hell’s wrong with that?! It you are gonna characterize that as a “pep rally for the better-off”, you are completely missing the point.
You keep emphasizing this ideological conflct between the middle class and the poor as if you wanted to keep it that way. In light of how many formerly middle class people have been thrust into poverty, that ideological divide you keep referring to could be outdated. Nothing changes one’s persepctive faster or more radically than being impoverished by circumstances beyond one’s control.
Delster, a corporate take-over translates to CORPORATE FASCISM, which is indeed what these so-called "trade agreements" are about. Bernie's agenda is the only acceptable agenda for anyone concerned about corporations taking over matters of the state, who does not want to live under fascism.
Governments are not corporations and vice versa, and we need to keep it that way. Bernie is the ONLY candidate who takes this issue seriously at all.
I've believed for a long time the cleaverest way to take over a democracy and limit the constitution and rule of law for that matter is by a corporate take over. That is part of what free trade agreements are about. I like Bernie Sanders and I like his message , but going up against corporate rule is a tall order to fulfill. One thing the free world has really got to keep an eye on is technology. www.businessinsider.com/technology-is-destroying-jobs-..
Absolutely!
This is a corporate virus that in reality is fascism
We have fought against this stuff in two world wars, it rears its Medusa like ugly head again and I now can't get that people don't see it for what it is
This is true manifestation of greed and evil against the greater good
“Excess of liberty, whether it lies in state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery.” Plato
Government allows corporate excess by the means of corruption
And, we the people allow them to do so
Do we live in a corporate enterprise zone, or a traditional nation state?
Watch how TTP plays out to get your answer.
ct
There are, at least, seven types of socialism, so when a critic uses the term in a general sense let's try to clarify which type of socialism is being referenced. Following are a number of varieties of socialism:
1. Democratic Socialism
2. Trotskyism/Communism
3. Utopian Socialism
4. Libertarian Socialism
5. Market Socialism (see China)
6. Eco-Socialism
7. Christian Socialism
Lest we neglect the fact that capitalism is not a unitary concept, here follows a few varieties:
1. Oligarchic Capitalism
2. State-Guided (regulated) Capitalism
3. Corporate Capitalism
4. Fascistic Capitalism
Let's note that three of the above would end our democratic form of governance has we know it.
Public health officials said most of the gas is dissipating and not causing long-term problems, though many residents have left because they doubt the air is safe. Foul-smelling additives that make highly flammable gas detectable have been blamed for maladies including irritated throats, coughs and respiratory problems.
Pass4sure 400-101
It depends on how one defines "the vast majority," I guess. Sen. Sanders used to speak out powerfully about US poverty and the need for legitimate poverty relief programs. Through this campaign, he has explicitely stated that he stands with the middle class. The middle class has fallen to less than 50% of the population, so representing them today is a matter of representing a minority of the population. The middle class and poor, of course, have profoundly different perspectives and priorities, and are they are deeply pitted against each other.
The Clintons are considered "centrists" by today's young adults? As in, the president who took an ax to the Great Society and still had time to begin similarly "reforming" the New Deal? And his partner, who dedicated years of work to NAFTA and the TPP? These would have been considered hard right-wingers by previous generations.
I'm not aware of any sizable political progressive presence in the US today. There's nothing new about progressivism. Political progressive ideology is centered on economic policies. The only way to build (or rebuild) an economy is from the bottom up, much like building a house. All we've had since the 1990s is an utterly meaningless pep rally for the better-off, whatever still remains of the middle class. As a result of the very agenda supported by the middle class, they are being phased out, and are now less than 50% of the population.
Consider the message of Democrats and liberals today. They so strongly believe in the success of our deregulated capitalism that they think everyone is able to work, there are jobs for all, therefore no need for poverty relief. That is regressive, not progressive.