Former CA State Senator Tom Hayden talks w/ Thom Hartmann - as our quagmire in Afghanistan continues - a new quagmire may just be getting underway...in Pakistan. Last week - Outgoing Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen, who has visited Pakistan 27 times since 2008 - Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Pakistan has provided safe haven to a terrorist group that carried out attacks on the US Embassy in Kabul - prompting many to say that the Pentagon is upping the ante with Pakistan. Meanwhile right-wing writers and pundits are openly calling for attacks on Pakistan, or for us to abandon our balanced support of both India and Pakistan in their disputes, as Rick Perry so ham-handedly suggested in the last Republican debate.

Thom Hartmann vs. Dan Holler, Heritage Action for America. The Obama Administration is taking a gamble for the upcoming 2012 election year, betting their chips that the Supreme Court will uphold Obama Care! Are the winning odds in their favor - and why are Conservatives piling on against an idea - they created!? So how will Conservatives try to spin this one?

Professor Richard Dawkins, British ethologist, evolutionary biologist and author-his latest is "The Magic of Reality: How We Know What's Really True" joins Thom Hartmann for Conversations w/ Great Minds.

Today we learned that our democracy could be hacked by an eighth grader with 26 bucks. That's what a security assessment team with the US Department of Energy discovered when they successfully hacked into a Diebold electronic voting machine - and were able to change voting results without leaving a trace behind. These are the same guys that make sure the facilities that manufacture nuclear bombs are secure - and the security assessment team leader said about the voting machine hack, "this is a national security issue." Despite all this - in next year's election - 30% of voters are expected to use these very same "hack-easy" voting machines - that the rest of the world have shelved citing security concerns. And today - with the rise of hack-activist groups like Anonymous - this glaring hole in the security of our elections - could be exploited for absurd purposes...and, the nominee is...Scooby Doo?