Thom Hartmann: Well it may or may not be big news. The headline is that “House Democrats Reject Tax Deal!” Well, yes and no. The house democrats have not voted on the floor of the House of Representatives on the tax deal. They had a caucus meeting this morning and they took a vote, a straw vote, and basically said no to the president. But it’s a non-binding vote. So my, you know, I don’t know what conventional wisdom is. My guess is that you know when the President of the United States, the head of the party, says he wants something, ultimately he gets it even if there’s a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Let’s get some perspective on this. Rick Nolan, former US congressman from Minnesota was in congress and running for congress around the time that, basically a very similar scenario played out during the Clinton administration, ’93, ’94. Congressman Nolan, welcome to the program.

Rick Nolan: Delighted to be with you.

Thom Hartmann: Thank you. Thank you for joining us and for your thoughts. Tell us what your experience was and how you think that there are parallels between that time and now.

Rick Nolan: Well, you know, the issue is really not whether or not compromise is advisable. Of course it is, that’s the only way anything ever gets done. The real issue is when do you compromise? And it appears that Obama has established a pattern where he compromised on the public option issue for healthcare before the congress had even begun a serious consideration of healthcare.

Thom Hartmann: Right.

Rick Nolan: He compromised with the generals on Afghanistan and tripled the troops and the cost of that. And he compromised here on this tax bill with the republicans giving tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires. And you know, that’s the issue. Whether or not you’re going to have a show of some presidential strength before you throw in the towel. And he’s establishing a pattern here where he just throws in the towel right out of the chute.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah. Well it certainly looks that way. On the other hand, you know, we had Dan Pfeiffer on, his communications director on yesterday, and his main point was that this is what, this is how you get things done. That this guy is getting things done that for example Bill Clinton didn’t. but my recollection is that Bill Clinton without a single republican vote did raise taxes, and did, thus, produce a balanced budget.

Rick Nolan: Absolutely. I mean Clinton understood the power of the presidency, the power of the veto, the bully pulpit power of the presidency and was able to get things done. Now, and this case in particular, you know, if president Obama went on national television and said I was not elected president of these United States of America to provide tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. Yes the middle class needs a tax break, yes it would be good for the country. But I will veto any bill that comes before me that provides a tax break for millionaires and billionaires. Then let it play out. Let’s see what happens. Go on the television, go across the country. Say if the republicans want to deny middle America a tax break, if republicans want to deny unemployment benefits at Christmas time, so be it. But I’m not going to approve tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires.

Thom Hartmann: In other words, stand on principles.

Rick Nolan: Yes. My point in this and I think the democrats point is that you know, you would see some movement by the republicans.

Thom Hartmann: Well they, you know, John Boehner in September said that if the only option he had was a tax cut on people making less than a quarter million dollars a year that he would take it. In fact, here’s the clip of it, congressman.

John Boehner: “If the only option I have is to vote for some of those tax reductions, I’ll vote for them.”

Thom Hartmann: There you go, right there. That’s John Boehner saying, and that was in September. I mean this could have even been a campaign issue if the president and the democrats had played this right. And yet, one of the stories that I keep hearing over and over again is that the Bush administration, or the Obama administration has learned from the mistakes of the Clinton administration, particularly as it went into the first mid term. And yesterday we talked with Marjorie Margolies, who lost her seat as a result of being the tie breaking, or the deciding vote I guess, on that tax increase, and then wham got slammed in the mid terms. What, you know, what was your experience of that time and what do you think would have happened if the president had stood up and said no I’m going to do this this way?

Rick Nolan: Well I think, personally I think the president would have been successful. I think he would have gotten the concessions on the tax breaks for the so-called millionaires and billionaires. He might not have gotten the 250 thousand and up. But my guess is he would have gotten a million and up, for absolutely sure. And worst case if he doesn’t, he can make that same compromise he’s made today. He can go back and say okay I fought it hard, I vetoed it, I pushed all as far as we could, we weren’t successful. He can go back and do that the day before Christmas, or he can do it the day after New Years. He didn’t need to make this compromise now at this point in time.

Thom Hartmann: Right. How, you know, what part of your experience as a congressman during the Clinton administration causes you to think that?

Rick Nolan: Well I can, you know, I was just thinking about some of the good and bad experiences and memories from serving in the congress and I’ll give you a good one to start with. When the bail out, the 750 billion dollar bail out was implemented in the final days of the Bush administration as the financial system and the economy were collapsing, there was an effort, a successful effort, to include in that an amendment that prohibited Wall Street bankers from getting bonuses.

Thom Hartmann: Right, I remember.

Rick Nolan: And that became the law of the land. Well then when Obama took over the presidency, and the stimulus bill was passed, Obama sent Geitner and his lieutenants up to Capitol Hill, and they successfully lobbied to delete that amendment from the law so that Wall Street could get its bonuses. Well you know, in the first instance, it was a great moment I thought for the congress and for the country. In the ??? instance it wasn’t. Because they’ve gone on, you know, as a result of getting a federal tax payer bailout…

Thom Hartmann: Yeah they’re taking 141 billion dollars in bonuses this year.

Rick Nolan: Exactly. And now, and now, and maybe that should have been a signal to us, as to who had the most influence in this White House. Because now in addition to those billions in bonuses they’re going to get a tax break on top of it.

Thom Hartmann: This is sad to hear. We’re talking with congressman, former congressman Rick Nolan, the democrat from Minnesota. And congressman, your thoughts right now on what this means for the future of the democratic party and particularly, more importantly, and I think we’re all very concerned about this, the Obama presidency as we go into 2012. We very much want to see him re-elected in 2012, my take on it is that this is going to weaken him. We have about a minute left. Your thoughts on this?

Rick Nolan: Well, it is definitely going to weaken President Obama. It already has. People in this country do like him, they want him to do well, they want to see a compromise, but they don’t want to see tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires. At the end of the day, elections are all about choices. And if it becomes a choice between Huckabee or Palin or anyone of the leading republican candidates, I suspect that Obama will be in good shape. Furthermore, a tax break for middle class America is important. And it’s something that this country needs and will stimulate the economy. It’s just unfortunate that it has to include tax breaks for billionaires.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah, I don’t disagree at all. Rick Nolan, thank you so much for being with us today sir.

Rick Nolan: Pleasure talking to you, you’ve got a great show. Keep it up.

Thom Hartmann: Thank you, thank you very much. Former Congressman Rick Nolan of Minnesota, serving that state well and ably. So where is, where do the democrats go now that they have officially said, officially said, the democrat caucus, that is the democratic, the group of democrats have officially said to the president, no thanks. Where do they go?

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.