Thom Hartmann: So what’s the real threat to American democracy? Who are the real fundamentalist crazies? Who are the people who actually have the power to change US policy, to change our laws, to change our foreign policy? To lobby other foreign governments and get them to do things that cause their citizens for example their gay citizens or their AIDS infected citizens of their maybe going to be AIDS infected citizens now with the probability going up dramatically, lose their rights, lose their lives. What is the real terrorist group in the United States? Well let’s not call them terrorists, the real radical, fundamentalist religious radicals. Is it Al Qaeda? Don’t think so. Is it the Taliban? No.
Jeff Sharlet has tracked them down. He’s the assistant professor of creative non-fiction at Dartmouth College, contributing editor of Harper’s Magazine and Rolling Stone. Author of his previous book, “The Family,” and now his latest, just out. You can get it over at Amazon.com or your favorite book seller, your local book store, and his website also, JeffSharlet.com, but Amazon.com is where he would prefer people pick up the book. The title is “C-Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy” Jeff, welcome back to the program.
Jeff Sharlet: Hey Thom, good to talk with you.
Thom Hartmann: Threat?
Jeff Sharlet: Threat is the right word. We are talking about a group that includes men like Senator Jim DeMint, Senator Tom Coburn, Senator Jim Inhofe. These are guys who just, you got it right in the beginning, who have the power to change laws. We’re not talking about the Tea Party, we’re not talking about people dressing up in funny Revolutionary War outfits. We’re talking about US senators, congressmen, businessmen, and even a lot of military leaders who dismiss the first amendment and embrace the idea of what they call “A God led government.” And those are people in power. And that I think is a greater threat to democracy than a man wearing a tri-corner hat.
Thom Hartmann: You know I think there are probably many American who pray regularly for guidance and you know, imprecatory prayer. I’m one of them. But the idea that because you pray for something means it must happen or it’s God’s will, is in my opinion, speaking as a guy who does that, insane. And yet these guys, I think, really take it seriously that if they pray for something that that must be God’s will, and it must be done and even if it involves lying to Americans or Ugandans or other people. It’s the right thing to do.
Jeff Sharlet: Yeah, absolutely. I mean this story begins, C-Street begins, with a story of the three sex scandals, and we talked about in the past. Senator John Ensign, Governor Mark Sanford and Congressman Chip Pickering. Three guys who, family values guys, decide to have affairs, and the C-Street house on Capitol Hill covered it up. Lied to them because…
Thom Hartmann: Let’s just back up a second here. The C-Street house on Capitol Hill is a building on, near the Congress, near Congress, where these guys live.
Jeff Sharlet: 133 C Street SE. They’d love for you to visit. And the reason they’d love for you to visit, I actually don’t mean that joking, is because they’re getting a tax exemption as a church.
Thom Hartmann: Wow.
Jeff Sharlet: Now the IRS says if you want to be tax exempt as a church so that you can subsidize housing for congressmen, give them a gift that amounts to tens of thousands of dollars over the years, you’ve got to have public worship services. So the next time you’re in Washington, drop in on Senator DeMint and say tell me how you pray and let’s pray together.
Thom Hartmann: Well I just happened to have moved here last week, maybe I’ll do that.
Jeff Sharlet: He’d love to have you.
Thom Hartmann: Ha! Are you, I’m assuming you’re being facetious, that C-Street house if I walk up and knock on the door and say I’m here for the prayer services, that they’re going to kick you out.
Jeff Sharlet: They’re going to kick you out, and that’s actually why a terrific group out in Ohio, inter-denominational group of clergy people called Clergy Boys, is pressing a case against these guys and saying you know you’re not acting like a church. You shouldn’t get a tax exemption and you shouldn’t be using it to subsidize the work that you’re doing around the world.
And that’s really the story I’m telling in this book. I’m following the money out of C-Street into the present. Following Senator Coburn to Lebanon, where he is promoting what the C-Streeters called Messianic Muslims. Muslims who are actually Christians but are telling their countrymen they’re Muslims, it gets confusing that way. To Uganda which you referred to, where their brothers and their understanding of Christ is very different than most of ours, are pursuing the most murderous anti-gay bill in the world. And they describe, I went to Uganda to meet these guys. They describe their project to kill every gay person in Uganda. They said they “can’t do that yet because it’s not a perfect world,” that was the quote.
Thom Hartmann: Whoa.
Jeff Sharlet: But they did say they were inspired by Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma who had taught them the political philosophy of Jesus.
Thom Hartmann: This is, you know this is what we’re exporting. These are the guys who are doing it. Why, you know Jeff Sharlet, this, you know, what you’ve done is you’ve added layers of horror to a story that you already told. And was astounded when you first told that story, that it didn’t become an A-list story on the major news networks, you know that this kind of thing was going on. Any sense, any understanding, can you help me figure out why, you know Rachel Maddow might talk about it on MSNBC but it wasn’t a topic of discussion on Meet the Press, it you know nobody ever, in a major national forum had any of these guys on and confronted them with these you know, I would say they’re facts or else you’d be facing a hell of a law suit, that are in your books?
Jeff Sharlet: Yeah, you know I think this goes, look. You have a media that understands. They understand scandal when it’s a, you know a stripper in bed with a congressman or a bunch of Benjamin Franklins stuffed in an envelope, you know? It’s sleeping with the wrong person or cash. The deep, deep corruption that we’re talking about here, corruption so deep that you can have someone like David Bahati, author of the Kill the Gays bill saying there’s no connection between the family, that’s the group behind C-Street, and the bill. The bill is the family saying it is of them. Now and you can have Americans saying oh no we’re opposed to it, but they’re not giving any evidence of how they’re opposing it. That kind of corruption is more complicated but you know not that complicated. It just requires a, it requires our colleagues in the press to really take the first amendment seriously. You’d think they would, because it’s what enables us to do our jobs, but…
Thom Hartmann: Right. And their responsibilities. Go back and read Jefferson’s writings about why there is a 1st amendment, that you know you can’t have a democratic, small d democratic, or republic, you can’t have a functioning republic, let’s use language republicans like, what the hell, without a free and independent press, to literally quote Jefferson, “free and independent press.” We’re talking with Jeff Sharlet. His new book, “C-Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy.”
Jeff, typically when republicans in the past have used religion and fundamentalism as George W. Bush did in his father’s campaign, he was the outreach guy of the fundamentalist community because his dad is kind of Episcopalian and not all that religious. They’ve used, they basically used truly and genuinely and sincerely religious people as suckers and shills and used churches as organizing points for political purposes. It seems to me, from looking through your book, “C-Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy,” that this small number of very, very powerful senators and members of the house of representatives who live on C-Street and participate with it, are not doing that old Nixon trick, but rather they are much like Al Qaeda, much like the guys who flew the planes into the towers, they’re fundamentalist true believers.
Jeff Sharlet: They really are. You know I’ve talked to a bunch of these guys, I spent a lot of time with Senator Sam Brownback, Kansas, who is about to become governor Brownback of Kansas, he’s going to be succeeded by another C-Streeter, currently representative Jerry Moran is going to, is about to take his seat in senate. And you know Brownback, in fact I spent a lot of time writing about religion. All kinds of religion. Good religion, bad religion, scary religion, inspiring religion and I know when I encounter sincerity. Brownback is sincere. The question is what is he sincere about. And when we start, again, that’s what I was able to do in this book I wasn’t able to do in the last book is to bring the story into the present, follow it out into the world, into the US military, to Uganda, to Lebanon, to Sri Lanka, where we are exporting these ideas and these politicians are effective because they’re backed up by military power.
Thom Hartmann: And this guy, you know, Brownback is also backed up his entire career has been largely financed by the Koch brothers, hasn’t it?
Jeff Sharlet: Koch brothers, yeah.
Thom Hartmann: But they’re not religious, they’re just looking for the republican agenda, I believe, I mean, I may be wrong. Or are they part of the religions cult?
Jeff Sharlet: No, they’re not. They’re not. And I think you know I raised this question one time with a family man. I said look, you know people are using your organization. Men like congressman, former congressman Mark Siljander just pled guilty and he said you know what, we don’t care if they use us, we’d rather have wolves than sheep.
Thom Hartmann: As long as we get their money. Yeah. So therefore they can, it’s the old the ends justify the means.
Jeff Sharlet: The ends justify the means.
Thom Hartmann: Jeff Sharlet. His new book, “C-Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy,” you can find it over at Amazon.com. And his website of course, JeffSharlet.com. Thanks Jeff.
Jeff Sharlet: Thanks, Thom, good talking with you.
Thom Hartmann: Good talking with you.
Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.
