Shannyn Moore: Alright welcome back to the Thom Hartmann Program. This is Shannyn Moore, I am subbing for Thom today while he is spending some time in DC and out on a book tour. And well I can just tell you, Alaska’s dandy. It is. I think we’re going to have like three days till snow and the fog is so low today the seagulls are walking. There’s the big update from Alaska.

Really happy, Markos Moulitsas is on the line with us. He wrote, well a great book. I’ve had so much fun reading it. It’s called “American Taliban: How War, Sex, Sin, and Power Bind Jihadists and the Radical Right.” So Markos, how are you?

Markos Moulitsas: Great, Shannyn, great to talk to you. It’s been a while.

Shannyn Moore: It has, since Net Roots. And I was lucky enough that you gave me one of your, one of your pre-copies I guess. And I’ve been going through it. Let me just tell you, even the credits were hysterical. You’re very, very funny, I had no idea how clever you were.

Markos Moulitsas: Well you know when you’re talking about the American Taliban on the topics of sex and culture, it’s inevitably funny. I mean the jokes are, kind of write themselves. When I write about their violent tendencies and their desire for theocracy, not so funny. So I think there’s a sort of a line that I’ve always had to walk, where these guys are pretty hilarious as long as they’re not in power.

Shannyn Moore: Right and when you were writing more seriously I think they had quite a bit more power at that time. What is the feedback that you’re getting and it looks like you’re going to have to have volumes of this with the you know, with the boiling to the top of Christine O’Donnell and her, what is she, I mean what is she really about? She seems to be pushing this even further than Saran Palin.

Markos Moulitsas: Yeah I mean Christine O’Donnell sort of is exhibit A now for my book. I mean she just won the nomination for a high profile seat, this is Joe Biden’s old senate seat. And this is somebody who has sort of made a career out of telling people that they shouldn’t have sex. I mean she literally, I just posted a transcript from an MSNBC appearance where she basically claimed that she was going to try to stop the whole country from having sex because she considers it dirty. Any kind of nudity is dirty, masturbation is dirty.

And it’s fine if she wants to believe this stuff, I mean people’s personal religious beliefs are their own personal religious beliefs until they try to impose them on the rest of us. And here’s somebody who is obsessed with doing that. She’s coming up in a culture that glorifies violence and guns as a way to solve their problems, so if democracy doesn’t give them what they want, which in this case is sort of the eradication of sex in our society, then I don’t think people like her have any problem with resorting to violence. I mean had Sharron Angle who is running for senate in Nevada who basically said that at the republican summit congress that they may have to resort to 2nd amendment remedies, and of course we all know what that means.

Shannyn Moore: Right, absolutely. And then looking at this whole abstinence only and that you should refrain from masturbation, and someone’s telling you and they’ve got more lip gloss on than Bonnie Belle herself, and you know this, there’s a real mixed message when you see Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman, now Christine O’Donnell who is younger and prettier. They come out with these word salads that are completely full of guano crazy dressing and then the next thing you know, they, I think they’re political fluffers for the right wing.

Markos Moulitsas: Yeah, I mean… (laughing)

Shannyn Moore: I mean if that’s a fair statement.

Markos Moulitsas: Probably, I mean yeah it’s a fair statement. It is. And these people are dangerous. And going down the list, I mean Christine O’Donnell has claimed that there’s more evidence for the biblical creation theory that the earth was created in six days, than there is for every, the combined might of the physics and astronomy field and the research they’ve done on the big bang. She thinks that you know earth was created in six days. And there’s more evidence for that. I mean of course there isn’t more evidence for that.

She’s somebody who has said that the women, you musts submit to a husband in a marriage, right. But that’s not slavery, because the woman must, what’s the exact wording. “Graciously submit,” that’s a quote. So see, if you graciously submit, as God demands to your husband, than it’s not slavery. I’m not sure I understand that. I doubt my wife would put up with that kind of argumentation, so. I mean this is the kind of person she is. And like I said, it’s okay if she wants to live in her own little world of crazy. But people like her want to impose it on the rest of us. They want a theocratic world, I mean this is what American Taliban is.

And you asked earlier what the reaction has been, and there actually has been a fair amount of push back from the left, from people thinking well you shouldn’t say that about Americans it’s just not nice. And the problem here is that yeah, okay, it’s not nice, I’ll grant you that. But that’s not the same as saying it’s wrong. Because I don’t think it’s wrong. And I think my thesis is being validated on a daily basis. And I hate to make that argument because I don’t want to say, I don’t want this American Taliban operating in my backyard, organizing, winning set up primaries, and some of these guys are actually going to get elected to the senate in November and I, I wish they did not exist. But they do.

And for us to sort of hide under our covers and pretend that they don’t exist because oh heavens we might not be nice by pointing it out, I think is actually counter productive. We have to know who these people are, we have to be aware of them, and we have to be willing and ready to fight them. Because like I said, they’re pretty funny when they’re out of power, not so funny when they’re sitting in the congress or in the senate.

Shannyn Moore: No, absolutely not. And they’re, you know you look at the Palin, O’Donnell, Bachman think tank, that’s just about on E, there’s a red line straight at the E, but there’s a lot of brilliant women who are involved in politics right now and out there. Can you talk about that a little bit more because right now they’re not the ones really getting this attention. It’s really sort of the shrieking, shrill, crazy talking, submit to your husband, just be a weenie garage, make a meatloaf sort of women.

Markos Moulitsas: Yeah. Well it’s, I mean there’s a certain novelty to that, to the shrieking, conservative, crazy woman and I think that’s why they’re getting a lot of the attention. And it doesn’t hurt that a lot of them are considered attractive, and some more than others. But I mean generally speaking, they’re not an unattractive bunch of women and that has, that’s important in this culture, for better or for worse. I’m not going to sit there and say it’s a good thing. But it is a relevant thing. So if Sarah Palin was hideously ugly, would she be in the place she is at now? Probably not. And so there’s, and I think the same thing for Christine O’Donnell, and so that’s a factor.

But there’s also a lot of, you know what’s really interesting is that the three, I think republicans, that have the most to worry about in 2012 are actually women. Are the, the senators in Maine, Olympia Snow and Susan Collins. Snow is actually up for reelection, she’s not going to survive. There’s no way, as a republican, she may have to switch parties if she wants to survive. But also, down in Texas, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison is actually up for reelection. She just lost a primary for governor and polling shows that she’s going to probably get ousted in the primary and she is reliably conservative. There’s nothing in her that screams progressive, but she’s under fire. So I think a lot of these women are getting a lot of attention, but that’s because they’re crazy. But let’s also admit that, you know Rand Paul is getting a lot of attention too. So I think it’s just the crazies getting a lot of attention. It just so happens that a lot of them happen to be women.

Shannyn Moore: Well and in your book, “American Taliban,” I really sort of see, when you’re weighing it out up against the radical Taliban and put that next to what’s happening here, it, it’s really sort of spooky that they’re so similar. And you know, hearing about well you know the terrorists this and the terrorists that and the radicalism of a religion, as long as it’s where there’s a lot of sand and the people don’t look like us, that’s the enemy. But when it’s happening here and you’ve got someone walking into a church and shooting a doctor, I mean what’s the difference. It really doesn’t seem to be that big of a divide. I want to ask you how this is going to be affecting the election coming up in November. Markos can you stay on with us for another segment?

Markos Moulitsas: Sure.

**Commercials**

Shannyn Moore: Welcome back, this is Shannyn Moore. I’m just a girl from Homer, and I am filling in for Thom Hartmann today. Markos Moulitsas has been on with us and has continued to stay on with us. His great, he has a fantastic book, you really need to check it out. “American Taliban.” It’s provocative, just in it’s title, but hysterical and points out some things that are just I think what we have looked away from for so long. Tell me Markos, how are you seeing this election coming up? I just got a twitter message that said that things aren’t going to be quite as bad as people were predicting, the onslaught, in November of the takeover of the American Taliban?

Markos Moulitsas: So it, I got your question, I would not relax just yet. I still think we’re facing a fairly difficult climate and things are looking tough. Things will look a lot less tough if this intensity gap narrows. And I think there’s indications that it is. I think we’re starting to realize as progressives that as disappointed as we might be with Harry Reid and the white house on many of the issues, we’d be a lot more disappointed if John Boehner takes the house and Mitch McConnell takes the senate. So I know it’s never as exciting to vote against candidates, but fact of the matter is that these guys, these republicans are really dangerous. They’ve made very clear that they would, they’ve already set out to destroy Obama’s presidency and they’ve done quite a bit of harm in a deep minority, they’re going to narrow those minorities under the best scenarios. The issue is do we want them to actually be able to set the agenda in the house and or the senate, I don’t think we do. And I think it’s very important to keep a lot of these, most craziest elements, of the American Taliban out of congress because like I said earlier, it’s great to laugh at them when they’re out of power, not so funny when they’re in power.

Shannyn Moore: No, not at all. And I know here in Alaska we have this Joe Miller character who is, you know Palin endorsed. And basically Sarah Palin with a beard. And just running so far to the right to say you know that Alaska should have no federal monies. I mean, you know, and say no to that, is absurd. We live in a very young state, a very big state, that isn’t developed and we have towns that don’t have septic systems still. And to come out and think that that’s going to work, but it is a national platform right now to say you know the government’s bad and then they’re going to get in and prove it.

Markos Moulitsas: Yeah I mean republicans have done a really fantastic job of convincing people that government is incapable of making their lives better. And I think the biggest damage that the Obama administration and this democratic congress did these last tow years is they did not provide enough counter evidence to that claim. I mean they had the super majorities, they had the opportunity to make it very clear to people that they had the ability, government has the ability to improve their lives, and they did not get that done. They may have stemmed the bleeding on the job picture, but they didn’t reverse it. People who are losing their homes, there’s been no relief.

I mean a lot of the energy in DC has gone towards helping the banking and financial sectors as opposed to holding them accountable for their, basically I think their crimes against this country. So it’s easier for republicans to come in and say see I told you, government doesn’t really help and all they’re doing is spending money and your lives aren’t better. And right now that message is unfortunately resonating.

Because, even, you know you’re looking at the healthcare bill. A lot of the provisions don’t kick in until 2014. so you have all the bad about the bill, the cost of it, and the hysteria over it, but none of the good where people are feeling like oh yeah this is actually helping me out. So the democrats, unfortunately, kind of mismanaged these last two years. They didn’t improve peoples lives in the way that they had to do it to make that case and I think now the voters are going to take a whack at them at the polls.

But you know we’ve got to remember though, it’s not that republicans are more liked or more trusted, I think people are just kind of pissed and they’re going to take it out on democrats. But it’s not because Americans suddenly think that republicans have the answers, because clearly all the polling, all the data shows very clearly that republicans remain toxic.

Shannyn Moore: Well, you know when Obama came in, I wasn’t under the impression that he was really all that progressive. I saw what he did with the FISA vote and I was like oh well I guess I’m not going to get that sort of liberal pornography moment seeing Dick Cheney and George Bush and John Yoo in like orange suits and chains. But I did think that there would be more that would happen. But certainly not saying that, and has never occurred to me gee I wish, I wonder what John McCain would do, you know. Other than get a food tester to make sure he wasn’t going to be poisoned.

Markos Moulitsas: Yeah, I mean, to me, Obama’s big mistake is, I mean from the beginning it was obvious that the right wing was out to destroy him. It was obvious, they said it, I mean there was no coy, there’s no dog whistle politics. They were very explicit about their desire to destroy him. And I’m not talking some random guy on the Internet, I’m talking congressional republicans. People like Rush Limbaugh, people who deliver the marching orders basically said we’re going to destroy this president. He tried to be bipartisan on the stimulus bill to the point where democrats negotiated against themselves. They kept watering it down and larding it up with non stimulative tax cuts. And so we got a stimulus that was much less than what every economist, every noted economist said was necessary to sort of pull us out of this recession. And yet they did not get a single republican vote. So they kept conceding and conceding. I think they got one, they got Susan Collins, right, or Snowe.

Shannyn Moore: I think so and I agree with you Markos. We’re at the bottom of the hour but I always said I thought we didn’t negotiate with terrorists and here we’re trying so hard. Markos, I just wanted to thank you for coming on and tell you, truly, how much I have enjoyed reading “American Taliban.” I think it’s brilliant. And to be able to laugh out loud at some of this and at the same time go oh wow that’s kind of scary is, you know, I kind of like that.

Markos Moulitsas: I appreciate that, Shannyn. And I can’t wait to get up to Alaska now. I still haven’t been and I can’t wait to go.

Shannyn Moore: Well you’ve got a spot, any time. I’ll take you fishing, it’ll be fun. We’ll be back in just a couple moments with senator Mark Begich calling in from Washington. We’ll be right back.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.