Thom Hartmann: Yeah, it is hitting the fan in Arizona right now. And frankly all across the country; the Republicans think that they can turn this into a giant political issue in the upcoming elections. In the meantime real people and real lives are being hurt and something that really deserves mentioning is that the more people who get arrested, there’s actually an industry that is lobbying, you know, I was talking with Sheriff Arpaio a minute ago, asking him why doesn’t he go after the rich white guys who own the corporations, own the businesses that are hiring people who are here illegally, who are the magnets that are drawing, if you want to identify this as a problem, who are drawing. And he’s like I don’t have the law to do it.

But the people who are pushing these laws, there actually is an industry that they’re gung ho for and that’s the private prison industry. The more people who get arrested, the more these other rich white guys who own the private prison industry like CCA and others, they’re making a fortune. They’re making a fortune off the pot laws, they’re making a fortune off the immigration laws. This is big business.

AFL-CIO, the AFL-CIO has been standing up for the rights of working men and women in America for ever. At least for almost a century now. Before that it was the American Federation of Labor and then the Congress of Industrial Organizations and they joined back in the day and now Maria Elena Durazo, how do you say it?

Maria Elena Durazo: Durazo, D-U-R-A-Z-O.

Thom Hartmann: Ah Durazo, thank you. Maria Elena Durazo is with us. She’s with the Los Angeles AFL-CIO, the website is LAUnionAFLCIO.org/July29, July29, do I have that right?

Maria Elena Durazo: Yes. Yes. Good morning.

Thom Hartmann: Okay, and I was just talking with Joe Arpaio and I said, there are people heading to Phoenix to say, 'no we’re not going to show you any damn papers what are you going to do?' And he said, 'well, if they break the law I’ll arrest them, if they don’t I won’t'. So I’m curious, what are you planning on doing? You’re on your way.

Maria Elena Durazo: Well, we’re on our way to help support, in particular, the Latino community, but all workers in Arizona. Because this economy is not going to recover for the good of workers as long as we have a broken immigration system. The broken immigration system only helps the corporations, frankly, that did so much harm to our economy and almost destroyed our economy. So, we want to bring a level playing field, we want everybody to have the same rights. We want everyone to be recognized for the hard work that they do and especially immigrants, whether they’re documented or not, but they play a big role in our economy. And so we’re fighting as workers with workers for workers for the good of our economy.

Thom Hartmann: Sure. The Labor movement in the United States really picked up steam in the 1880s, when the railroads were importing Chinese workers to break the strikes, break the unions. And historically have worked to limit the size of the work force, to reduce the number of hours that can be worked, the 50 hour week then the 40 hour week, to do away with child labor, things like that. Are you suggesting that we should just throw our borders open to anybody who wants to come in?

Maria Elena Durazo: Absolutely not and the official position of the AFL-CIO and the Change to Win? Federation, the entire labor movement is absolutely on the same page saying we need several issues to be addressed. Of course we have the right, and we have to protect our borders. There's no doubt about it. Nobody has ever said open them up, well the crazies on the right say it but…

Thom Hartmann: Well actually I think the borders should not be sealed physically, that’s insanity. But legally speaking.

Maria Elena Durazo: We’re talking about legally. And some enforceable border control, there’s nothing wrong with that and we should do it and we have the right to do it. But these laws, these immigration laws are outdated, they’re broken down. They don’t serve good employers, because good employers have to compete with bad employers who are just out there to exploit, super exploit undocumented immigrants. So that’s not good for them. They’re trying to do all that’s right.

It’s not good for our communities because laws like this that try to pit law enforcement against the very community they’re supposed to protect, that’s not good either. That’s a waste of our resources. There are real criminals out there that we need to spend our resources on. And we need to do something about, you know, ten to twelve million undocumented who are right now living in this country. They have children who are growing up in this country, they have been here for many, many years…

Thom Hartmann: Many of whom are American citizens. No you’re absolutely right. We need comprehensive immigration reform and nobody seems to want to talk about it. And when I ask just pretty straightforward questions like I asked Joe Arpaio, I said, he says ‘well I’m going into these companies and I’m taking out their workers.’ And I said but then they just refill it a week later with more workers and now the employers can say, ‘instead of working for 50 cents an hour you’re going to have to work for 20 cents an hour or else I’ll call my enforcer, Sheriff Joe.’ I mean you’re the stooge for these rich white guy employers. And he’s like, ‘well we need laws against the employers.’

Maria Elena Durazo: Well, even worse than that. Sheriff Arpaio himself violated the law. Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis just won a case against him just a few months ago in which he had to pay several million dollars for the law enforcement staff that he did not pay overtime to. So even he, himself.

Thom Hartmann: He’s exploiting his own workers.

Maria Elena Durazo: That’s right, that’s right. So, you know, and for the last two or three years he has engaged in racial profiling when it comes to law enforcement. He goes when there are marches of Latinos protesting or asserting their first amendment rights. He follows them, he has vans following them, he intimidates, he threatens. He pulls people over because their brake light is out or because they don’t have a seatbelt on. That’s how he’s using his time…

Thom Hartmann: Are you recommending that when people come into contact with him and his people that they refuse to show their papers if asked?

Maria Elena Durazo: No, that’s is up to each individual to decide that. We’re not asking for papers because as we function in this society, both, you know, regular people on the street aren’t asked to carry their proof of citizenship.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah it seems crazy that you should have papers to walk down the street. Working…

Maria Elena Durazo: But we’re going to act like regular folks do every single day and we expect that you know, we’re going, to be respected and….

Thom Hartmann: Right. Maria Elena Durazo. LAUnionAFLCIO.org/July29. Thank you Maria Elena.

Maria Elena Durazo: Thank you for what you do.

Thom Hartmann: Thank you.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.