Daily Topics - Friday August 20th, 2010
By shawnt56
Quote of the Day: "Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one." -- Thomas Jefferson
"Anything Goes on Townhall Friday!"
Hour One: "Brunch With Bernie" - Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) spends the hour with Thom discussing the issues and answering listener questions www.sanders.senate.gov
Hour Two: Why are some in the religious right doing Osama Bin Laden's work for him? Thom confronts Dr. Terry Jones, pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center and author of "Islam is of the Devil" www.doveworld.org
Comments
#2
I think it's clear who gets 'member of the day' this time around :)
#3
Hi Bernie, I wish someone would say that the FICA tax rate could go down for everyone if the cap is taken off. Wouldn't this be great and how could Republicans fight it? Keep up the great work! Al
#4
Republicans would fight it on the grounds that it would make Social Security [even] more redistributive. I say let 'em try. It's high time Democrats called their bluff.
#5
Re:
How come congress can investigate sports stars...
And not investigate Bush & Company.
Because it's old news (invading a sovereign nation under false pretensions) , the statute of our limitations (short memory) has run out.
#6
Nobody has the guts to bell the cat.
#7
Re: Why are some Christians doing Osama's work for him?
Perhaps it is because they don't know the Christ?
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -Mahatma Gandhi.
#9
Part of me is actually hoping WWIII turns out to be between conservative Muslims and conservative Christians. That way, maybe the meek really will inherit the earth, or what's left of it.
#10
Terry Jones wants to send a "Very Clear Message", and he is, some people are foolish morons who act stupidly out of fear.
N
#11
Islam will be the majority religion in the United States of Motal Sin by 2075. Believe it or not!!!
#12
Re: Terry Jones' Fundamentalism
Psychiatrist and Christian writer M. Scott Peck said there are 4 stages of spiritual belief people go through. Fundamentalism is only stage 2.
In stage 3, people become skeptical of religious dogma. In stage 4, people retain their skepticism, but also allow themselves to feel a sense of awe at the universe.
#13
So is stage 4 the final stage?
#14
Do you want a better world for everyone? Here are the two practices that are necessary for a better world. Practice the Golden Rule, "Do onto others as you would want them to do onto you!!!" Practice the Eleventh Commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you!!!" - Jesus Christ at the Last Supper
#15
These wackos get way too much coverage. It is almost giving them legitimacy in the minds of stupid people. Let's marginalize them and put them back into the recesses of their made up world.
Let's have conversations about reality and things that matter.
And how about a little civility.
Al
#16
Where are the commanders who run the Air Force Academy? Picking their nose? Religion is a personal experience and it should not be forced upon people.
#17
I believe in the power of pray and in religion but I do not want to force it upon people. You can accept pray and religion or you can reject it.
#18
Sorry if I missed any reference to Pidgeons, in regard to Doveworld and Terry Jones, but you are falling into the frame of the fringe bigtime. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf/what-shariah-law-is-all-a_b_190825.html Sharia Law is no more laws, than the community center a Mosque. In fact in The Law vs. the law, capitalization is important and the crux of our confusion or clarity. "...Laws of Nature and of Nature's God..." is straight from the constitution. The constitution is an intervening document to our laws, but Sharia Law has another structure but is not the laws that nations institute or people even understand or can successfully fulfill. In fact capitalization if further prophetic or non profitable in regard to progress as the whole issue or lack of perspective is "political opportunism"(thanks to an FB friend).
#19
Re: So is stage 4 the final stage?
I don't know. What I do know is that many people get stuck at stage two, and never mature spiritually.
#20
The American Way!!!
http://www.zcommunications.org/a-culture-of-violence-by-stephen-lendman
#21
Correction: My first use of the word "constitution" should be "Declaration of Independence" to which my second use is intervening to our "American experiment" as even the Right might say. And in terms of words or meaning, the preamble is another intervener or context provider for what follows in word if not in deed, where our principles are laid out, much as Sharia Law (God's Law) is a guide, and then humanity interprets and fights its nature.
#22
I can't tell how moderate you are but the "conservative Muslim" and the "conservative Christian", frame you use, is interesting, and tweaks my own frame or biases. i.e. a conservative Muslim may not be a radical, but a conservative Christian these days in not very telling. On the other hand, I don't mean to let your hope for WWIII go unadmonished unless, you are just being fascitious, and your conclusion a good pun. There. Now, I don't know if I have upheld what the Right expect of the Left, in admonishing perspectives equally(or confusing them), but it was a shot.
#23
... and my mispellling of "facitious", a pun from above or below.
#24
re:#19: the final stage is the 3:10 to Yuma.
#25
re: #18: isnt Sharia Law the bailiff on Judge Judy?
#26
Islam is religion based solely on BELIEF PUBLICALY DECLARED BY DECLARER.
Muslims are not a nation.
Muslims are not a people.
Muslims are not a race.
Muslims are not a tribe.
There are no genetic Muslims . . . Never have been.
#27
Sorry: My comment "Sorry if I missed any" is prophetic in my not directing it to Thom but I believe I has sufficient context. And now n8chz (his name) gives me context to answer my own quiry/comment in "I can't tell how moderate you.." but I still might not be sure how you interpret Nietzsche but it explains the confusion or your skill. (not ill will intended)
#28
Of course I was being facetious. I wouldn't wish WWIII on anyone, although David Brin's notion of the 'Helvetiam Wars' does bring out a certain nonpacifist tendency in me...
#29
The Koran was heavily borrowed from the myths of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. The Bible as well as the Koran command murder, plunder, rape, torture, slavery, ethnic cleansing and genocide.. If these things are wrong then we should reject these man made books.for what they are. Those who agrue that Christ was moral, why did he promise salvation to those who abandon their wives and children for him. (Matt. 19:29, Mark 10:29-30,Luke 18:29-30). Disciples must hate their their parents, siblings, wives and children (Lule14:26). Genodcide does not happen in the new testament, but they are prophesied. Flooding the earth or maybe burning it up.I guess god will destroy most of the unfaithful again. Same old B.S. Be very afraid. That in a nutshell is what all religion ios all about. I choose to live in the light of reason, free to love all mankind, regardless of their beliefs.
#30
Speaking of typos, it may be a message to leave. I, it, religion,nation...there are difference, yet some think they choose, (no pun on chosen) and others think they are born into it. (this obtuse or sloppy comment: regards some discussion with a caller as to how religions are passed on, and might be pertinent to the confusion in interpretations and associations, and the seeming spin or unproductiveness of some dialogue and the limits of logic.
#31
Re: The Abrahamic religions; Christianity,Islam & Judaism
There's just something about that ancient Middle Eastern Mindset.
#32
Realization
I came to a realization about 6 years ago. After a lifetime of being on the higher end of the income scale, then humbled by fighting for pennies just to eat, (after a spinal injury, "pre-existing scam", losing everything, fighting against & then FOR Disability, and living now on less than $700/mo);
I'd MUCH rather be poor and happy, than wealthy and miserable.
They didn't teach this in my 8 years of post-high school college. It seems that every day, I see more and more evidence of this transformation in others as well. And maybe that's a good thing.
elaine/SoloPocono
Everyone have a WONDERFUL weekend!!
#33
As the pro-Israel rhetoric goes, 'it's a tough neighborhood.'
As for the evolution of Old Testament -> New Testament -> Q'uran,
It appears to me to be an adaptive evolution in the 'design' of meme complexes and their means of self-perpetuation as a means of social control. The Protestant Reformation is another major development.
#34
Thanks Dave A, (and maybe I have added some context on your perspective. And thanks n8chz, sorry to not be able to read and write at the same time... so thanks to rladlof. And the current caller the American Taliban.
#35
Thom: Organized religion is not the problem, following words or people is, not to mention free will. Following it, that is, not that I would change free will, but it is in what we do about and for it.
#36
The 'Seal of the Prophets' doctrine and Revelation 22 are basically two manifestations of the same phenomenon. They are sort of a 'no-tamper clause' in the meme complex. Authoritarians of all stripes place a high value on having the last word, the final say, case closed.
#37
@n8chz re: rhetoric That makes a tetrahedron. Have we reached the be all and end all of spin? I mean that there are four traditions of social control, which you have noted and what is next? http://www.augustreview.com/issues/religion/global_religion_for_global_governance_2005071210/Which must be seen in the context of meaning, progress, our evolution and wether we may be reborn as Tea Partiers, as I close with sarcasm or irony as sometimes it is the only way out.
#38
It seems to me, If it were not for the Enlightenment, Christianity would still be in the Dark Ages.
Clay Jenkinson of "The Thomas Jefferson Hour" said that if the United States was founded 50 years earlier, or 50 years later, Our form of government would not have been/be sectarian.
#39
Oh great, more NWO talk
#40
Thom,
Regarding the christianist who called in a bit ago talking like he was an authority on Sharia Law and Islam, could you ask these folks where they get their information? They always seem to speak with such unshakeable certainty that one would assume that they have taken classes, read in-depth texts, etc.
Love your show and listen when I can. thanks!
lp
#41
Floride (Halogen) readily forms an extremely strong chemical bonds with Calicum (Rare Earth Metal). This specific ionic (electrovalent) bond requires a significant amount of energy to force a separation of these two elements . . . Hence tougher bones and teeth.
#42
Calcium is an alkaline-earth metal, not a rare earth. The strongest ionic bond of all is Francium Fluoride. Too bad it's radioactive.
#43
Variations on Themes:
I believe in the power of prey far more than the power of prayer . . . . As a Jew, prayer is about praising the deity of my people (baruch) and setting one’s self upon the path of repentance (teshuva).
And I have no belief in religion and faith does not define me . . . As a Jew, it is what I do not what I believe; it is what I do and how I act and who I am. I am free to choose to feel belief and I am free to choose to feel spiritual, if I choose. As the practioner of a non-faith-based religion, these concepts do not matter to my relation to my religion. If I fail to act appropriately, I am labeled “Apostate” but remain a Jew.
But I do not want know that this “IT” thingy is that is being forced upon people. If you practice a faith-based religion, you can accept prayer and religion OR you can reject them AND that is peachy keen with me.
I recognize that the reading material I base my understanding of my religion on has been adapted liberally as part of the basis of a wide variety sects of several different religions. The understanding me and mine tend to grok from the texts tend to vary from the understandings folk of differing cultures and backgrounds derive for their variations of these works.
#44
Francium is radioactive?!? Oh, no! I'd better get to the hospital! She told me it was mono!
#45
You are correct . . . Calcium is an Alkaline Earth Metal . . . Junior College chemistry was two farging decades ago . . . Sigh, the whole in my head keeps letting the rain flow through. I recommend using:
Rather than relying on what is left of my mind and memory.
#46
The "god-cat"
Thom, what that one caller was reciting is a very popular urban myth repeated by ontologically-challenged individuals. The location of the nursing home and cat(s) changes with each telling, but the original story of the supposedly "psychic cat" was debunked when it was tested and determined that it was actually attracted to the heating pads and heating blankets generally given to terminal patients (including nursing homes and hospices), and cuddled with them for the warmth, not out of any perceived divine intervention.
As a test, heating blankets were given to non-terminal patients, and the psychic cat spent an equal amount of time with them as with the non-terminal patients.
In the end, the original story was debunked, but the myth lives on as another Santa Claus story to which many non-rational people cling.
#47
The opposition to this so called "Mosque" is supposedly on behalf of the memory of the brave first responders that lost their lives on 911? How about asking Congress to explain themselves for denying extended healthcare for the surviving first responders that are sick and dying because of the contaminates they encountered saving lifes? How can these surviors be forgotten? The tax breaks for corporations that have moved to the Caymans and Dubai to avoid paying their fair share of taxes are more important than funding healthcare? It is shameful.
#48
Richard, do you still believe "Palestinians" (your scare quotes, not mine) are not a nation, but a "marketing gimmick" (your term)?
I'll post here (with minor mods) what I posted to you the other day. The first part was to "Gerald", the guy who was spewing "Israel=nazigenocidehitlerblahblahblah" all over the page. The rest was to you.
Wow, Gerald, you're a piece of work, that's all I can say. Have you checked your meds lately? Israel's policies toward the Palestinians can be quite nasty, but it falls far short of Nazism or genocide. Drawing equivalencies between the two is odious.
Now, as to Richard, I'm tempted to say the same thing. Putting the term "Palestinians" in scare quotes is quite a cute (but old) rhetorical device, which I'm surprised is still being used by some throwbacks. As a Jew and a Zionist myself, I am often amazed that (some) Palestinians (or "Palestinians") and their supporters deny Israel's "right to exist" -- but we deny that the Palestinians exist at all. That's the same drivel I was force-fed in Hebrew school some 30 years ago.
You may have heard of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the founder of the Revisionist movement within Zionism, which gave birth to both the IZL (Irgun Zva'i Leumi, often shortened to "Irgun" -- a right-wing Zionist group viewed by both the British and the Hagana as terrorists, to which future Israeli PM Menachem Begin belonged, and the even more extreme LHI (Lohamei Herut Yisrael, or "Stern Gang", to which future Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir belonged). Here's what he had to say about your scare-quoted so-called marketing gimmick:
"Today the Jews constitute a minority in [Palestine]; in another twenty they could well be the vast majority. If we were Arabs, we would not agree to this either. And the Arabs are good Zionists too, like us. The country is full of Arab memories. ... I have been accused of attaching too much importance to the Arab national movement. [Some say] I admire this movement unduly. But the movement exists...."
--Ze'ev Jabotinsky, Prague, July 1921, remarks to meeting of the Actions Committee of the Executive of the World Zionist Organization. (Quoted from Paul R. Mendes-Flohr, ed. A Land of Two Peoples: Martin Buber on Jews and Arabs (Oxford Univ. Press 1983, 1984 paperback edition), p. 6). Emphasis added.
He wasn't alone.
"[We] may be a people without a home, but alas, there is not a country without a people....Palestine has an existing population of 700,000, a people who have lived there for centuries and rightfully consider this country as their fatherland and homeland. That is a fact which we must take into account. ... [A] relationship [of mutual trust] can only be established if those who are the newcomers -- and such are we -- arrive with the honest and sincere determination to live together with the other people on the basis of mutual respect and full consideration of all their human and national rights. ... World public opinion cannot forget the existence of a large native population in Palestine; the growing sympathy with the aspirations toward national self-determination of the native peoples will make Zionism unpopular in many circles, *not out of anti-Jewish feelings but out of consideration for the natural rights of the Arabs.*"
--Robert Weltsch, editor of Zionist weekly Judische Rundschau, editorial, August 1925. Quoted in Mendes-Flohr, pp. 14-15. Emphasis added.
That was in 1925, in case you missed it, and Jabotinsky's quote was from 1921.
And then there was Martin Buber in 1929:
"Assuredly there are many aspects of the Palestinian Arabs which are annoying to us (just as there are things in us which, in certain respects, are displeasing to me); but we must not ignore the fact that among them the connection with the land -- something which will take us a long time still to accomplish -- has taken a positive, even organic, form; it is an accepted fact which is no longer even considered. ...
"We have not settled Palestine together with the Arabs but alongside them. Settlement 'alongside,' when two nations inhabit the same country, which fails to become settlement 'together with' must necessarily become a state of 'against.' This is bound to happen here -- and there will be no return to a mere 'alongside.' But despite all the obstacles in our path, the way is still open for reaching a settlement 'together with.' And I do not know how much time is left to us."
--Martin Buber, October 1929, "The National Home and National Policy in Palestine," in Mendes-Flohr pp. 87-91 passim. Again, emphasis added.
What's that? He was talking about the "Palestinian Arabs"... in 1929? Without scare quotes? What could he have been thinking?
So much for your scare quotes around the name of a nation, Richard. Do us all a favor, eh? Please show restraint and refrain from being . . . well . . . yourself on any posting you make regarding this topic.... OK? Thanks.
#49
@gharlene, Germany's treatment of Jews and non-Jews was a mortal sin that damns the human soul. Israel's treatment of Palestinians, Lebanese, and Iranians is a mortal sin that damns Israel's soul. A mortal sin is a mortal sin. The United States of Hell's treatment of Americans and non-Americans is a mortal sin that damns her soul. Our nation is a damned nation.
#50
Too little, too late! Hell awaits Americans!
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/20/poll-shows-growing-opposition-to-afghan-war/
Thom's Blog Is On the Move
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Higgins has been a busy boy!
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Higgins Accused in a Possible Six Bank Robberies
Happy Friday to You! =)