Thom Hartmann: Well, the oil spill continues as I mentioned earlier. There’s at least one scientist who is a member of the president’s panel that is trying to determine the flow rate, the Flow Rate Commission, who says that based on what they’re seeing in satellite photos, the current flow rate, since they cut the pipe, could be 100 thousand barrels a day, of which about 10 thousand are being vacuumed up, whatever, by BP right now. Nobody knows, really. Maybe BP knows and they’re not telling.

Jean-Michel Cousteau is on the line with us. The son of Jacques Cousteau. He has a new book out, published by National Geographic books, "My Father, the Captain: My Life With Jacques Cousteau". A brilliant and, just a brilliant biography. But also, Jean-Michel Cousteau, involved in environmental causes to this day. Sir, welcome to the program.

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Thank you very much. Thank you for your comments.

Thom Hartmann: And thank you for joining us. You have been to the Gulf recently?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Yes. Not as recently as I would like to because I have other obligations but my team was there for 10 days, coming back last week, and I was there the first three days so we’re going to go back. We’re working to make that happen and it is beyond the imagination. We will little by little discover the reality of this catastrophe as you mentioned just earlier, we have no idea what is going on. But the size of it is the biggest that has ever happened on the planet caused by man when it comes to environmental disaster.

And I was at the Exxon Valdez 21 years ago, I did a one hour special. We haven’t yet recovered from it. There are people who are still suffering from it. You can still find oil in 30 or 40 centimeters below the ground on the beaches and the Indians who depended on that marine life being affected still today.

So when it comes to the Gulf, we have no idea. At the magnitude of the consequences not just on the marine life, at every level, since between the oil and the dispersant that have been released, which are by the way illegal in Europe. I don’t know why the government has allowed that to happen. So now you have that oil and chemicals in the entire water column, 5000 feet.

Thom Hartmann: What does, If I may interrupt, first of all, many of us are of the opinion that the reason why the Obama administration initially went along with the dispersants is because they didn’t realize how bad it was, BP was lying to them, and they thought, just like BP thought, if we can get this out of sight, it will be out of mind.

Jean-Michel Cousteau: That's right.

Thom Hartmann: And the dispersants cause the oil to settle down and so it wouldn’t show up on the beaches and there wouldn’t be such a bad PR thing and all that kind of. It didn’t work out quite that way.

And I agree with you that this is, the dispersants is a terrible disaster. There are some terms though that you’re using that I think many Americans are unfamiliar with and there’s a huge dimension to this that nobody is really talking about. Everybody’s talking about oil coming up on the beach and the poor birds and all that kind of thing. And everybody’s talking about how much is coming out of that blow out preventer pipe whatever, because those are the things that are visible. But there are these plumes of oil under the water and apparently much of it’s staying under the water because of the dispersants. And to the best of my knowledge there’s no precedent for what kind of damage this can do. What do you know about this, about what’s going on below the surface that we’re not seeing and that’s not being reported in the mainstream media, and it’s potential consequences?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Well, what it does basically is to affect the entire marine life in the water column from the plankton all the way up to the surface.

Thom Hartmann: What is a water column?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Well, the water column is 5000 feet of depth.

Thom Hartmann: Oh okay so by water column you just mean the entire depth of the water from the surface to the sea bed?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: That’s right. At every level, at every level. And when we were diving there...

Thom Hartmann: It’s stratified isn’t it, like the atmosphere is?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Well, no, it’s not that simple. I think you have particles that are being suspended and some of them will be eaten by marine life, others are affecting the sensitivity of plankton which is the foundation of all kinds of life in the ocean, that’s being affected definitely, and we’re finding it all the way to the coast line.

And when you have millions of birds that are normally reproducing at this time of the year, we’ve been shown what it does to them. What about the shrimps that are right below the surface that are in full reproduction period, those will be affected putting thousands of people out of business because they cannot go fishing anymore, the crab industry, the lobster, the shrimps, I mean the oyster beds, the catfish. I mean all of that is being affected and that affects tens of thousands of people.

We need a system that is being put in place independent from government, independent from industries, that will give authorization and it has to be an international system, whereby you have prevention, prevention, prevention and in case of an accident, because we make mistakes, we humans, we make mistakes, if there’s an accident, we have back up plans 1, 2, 3, just like we do with our space program.

And that has never been applied, everybody’s getting away, we’re pointing fingers when we shouldn’t do that. You know, how do you want the government to be a specialist in the oil business? They believe what they’re being told and if it’s wrong, well, what in my view is in this case, was that the solvent which is not even legal in Europe. I mean, come on. Let’s wake up, and I think we can, we’re getting a major call for action and we need to change. We cannot continue the way we’re doing things.

Thom Hartmann: Are you suggesting, for example, that internationally we should have standards that the, for example, Norway and Brazil require acoustically activated blowout preventers, Canada requires in the Arctic waters and sensitive waters, that relief wells be drilled simultaneous with primary wells, that these kinds of just kind of common sense even old technology things become international standards?

And also what do you think of the idea of there being an international agency, maybe even something under the purview of the UN that has a, you know, that owns, maybe even just one giant kind of oil rig sort of operation that could come in and take over in these kind of situations the next time this happens. I mean this isn’t unique, you had the big blowout off the coast of Australia, you had the Ixtac in Mexico, there was you know the one in Santa Barbara 30 years ago, etc. Your thoughts on those?

Jean-Michel Cousteau: Well, the answer is yes in the principle. I think a completely independent body which is not impacted by politics, not impacted by economics, will be there to make sure we all play the same game. There’s one ocean, one water system, it is our life support system and we all depend upon it, so there’s no reasons why you have certain regulations in one place and not in another place.

So I think we have an opportunity here and, you know, in the end, and I’m saying this in a very, very constructive way, everybody’s going to win. All these billions of dollars that are being spent right now can be saved and can be used for other things to help people. To make more efficient energy. And if these big operations want to stay in business in 10, 20 years from now, and I know they’re thinking about their shareholders today not 10 years from now, well, we need to look at what nature has to offer when it comes to renewable energy. So I think we’re getting there. This is a call for action and we’re going to make it happen.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah. Brilliantly said. Jean-Michel Cousteau. His new book, “My Father the Captain, my life with Jacques Cousteau,” a man, your father, influenced many of us deeply sir, and thank you for carrying on his work and your work. Thank you for being with us.

Jean-Michel Cousteau: You’re very kind, thank you sir.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.