Broadcasting live today from the Health Action 2010 conference put on by Families USA.

Thom Hartmann: More people listen to, on more radio stations, listen to the Thom Hartmann radio program than any other progressive show in America, also broadcast, also streamed live, broadcast live as television on Free Speech TV on Dish Network in addition to radio stations all across the country. By the way, welcome to our new station, WZON 103.1 FM the Pulse in Bangor, Maine. Pleased to be with you guys too. With us right now, Bob Amsterdam. He is the, an international foreign policy expert, human rights attorney representing political prisoners and opposition leaders in Russia, China, Nigeria and Venezuela. Bob welcome to the show.

Bob Amsterdam: Thanks so much for having me.

Thom Hartmann: Great to have you with us here. I’ve got some dissonance here, this makes my brain hurt. You as an attorney, as a human rights attorney, are defending dissidents in China at the same time that last night the President of the United States was saying in essence, we need to do more business with China, we need to give them more money. What’s wrong with this picture?

Bob Amsterdam: Well, firstly the President has lost his way on human rights. And that’s the kindest way I can put it. This administration is one of the most disappointing administrations on the issue of human rights I’ve ever seen. However…

Thom Hartmann: In other words he’s being nice to them the way he’s nice to the Republicans?

Bob Amsterdam: No, no. It’s the way he’s nice to the Russians. I mean, I just think the moral compass has been lost outside of this country and it’s frightening to watch. And the Chinese have treated him with derision. I think that’s the only thing that can be said. Why we are continuing the kowtow after Copenhagen where they, in an almost ritualistic way, insulted him, is beyond my imagination.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah. You’re talking about when they got the BRIC nations together and a few others into a separate room and they were having a you know…

Bob Amsterdam: They sent a very junior official to meet the President of the United States.

Thom Hartmann: The official, yeah.

Bob Amsterdam: And that, in Chinese diplomatic parliament…

Thom Hartmann: It’s equivalent of throwing uh…

Bob Amsterdam: Throwing a pie in your face. It’s just not done.

Thom Hartmann: It’s more like lighting a pile of dog stuff on your front lawn, your front door step and ringing the door bell.

Bob Amsterdam: Yeah, it’s not a kind thing. I would also correct, by the way, that while I represent dissidents in many countries, China is not one of them.

Thom Hartmann: Oh okay, alright. The problem of political dissidents around the world, this is no small thing. I see you also have offices in London and in...

Bob Amsterdam: Toronto.

Thom Hartmann: And in Toronto. Are you based in America at all?

Bob Amsterdam: Yes, we have an office in Washington, DC.

Thom Hartmann: Amsterdam And Peroff is the company.

Bob Amsterdam: But we don’t have any political dissidents in the United States that we’re representing yet.

Thom Hartmann: Well there are a few.

Bob Amsterdam: There are indeed.

Thom Hartmann: There are a few. And I would put Don Siegelman at the top of that list. Here’s a guy who was the governor of Alabama, he ran against a Republican for reelection. The campaign manager of his Republican's campaign, the Republican is Bob Riley, his campaign manager was a guy named Bob Canary, Bill Canary. He was Karl Rove's best friend. During his governorship Don Siegelman had appointed to an unpaid hospital advisory commission board the same guy who’d been appointed by two previous Republican governors. In other words, just maintained continuity. A guy who had given money to the state lottery, to have a lottery to fund education. This is something Jack Abramoff was very opposed to because he wanted, he was representing the Indian tribes. Leura Canary was the federal prosecutor, the wife of the guy who was running the campaign, of the Republican campaign of Don Siegelman’s opponent. She brings charges against him for bribery. He never took a penny. And this guy is facing federal prison right now. He’s a political prisoner, DonSiegelman.com you’ve gotta read this story. It’ll blow your mind.

Bob Amsterdam: I will as soon as I leave.

Thom Hartmann: This is the most classic example. This is the thing that could unravel Karl Rove. This is the most classic example of why the federal prosecutors who weren’t fired by the Bush Administration weren’t fired. And, you know, it’s just amazing. So anyhow. But you’re here to talk about political prisoners around the world. This is what you’re doing. Don Siegelman is his name. And how do we, as the United States, you said this administration has lost their moral compass, how do we get it back?

Bob Amsterdam: Look, I, you know when I heard Hillary Clinton annunciate principled pragmatism I almost lost it.

Thom Hartmann: Well, that’s Kissinger.

Bob Amsterdam: Yes. I don’t know why we’re trying to channel Henry Kissinger. But that’s exactly what we’re doing. And I don’t know how we get it back. I know I’ve gotta give a speech Tuesday at a Russian human rights forum and I’m almost embarrassed. You know, they’ve tried to reset with Russia, no one will reset and bring back to life Anna Politkovskaya or two lawyers that were murdered this year in Russia, one inside a Russian prison. I cannot…

Thom Hartmann: Or all the Russian journalists.

Bob Amsterdam: Well, I mean, I can’t even.

Thom Hartmann: It’s been like what, 40 of them now?

Bob Amsterdam: Yeah, I can’t begin to understand what this administration is thinking. And I can tell you as somebody who, you know, does these cases that without the moral suasion of an aggressive American administration there are very few countries, and the next one would be Germany, where you can get any push at all. I mean quite frankly, on the Khodorkovsky case we’ve gotten far more assistance from Angela Merkel whose country is heavily dependent on Russian gas than we ever have from the United States that’s independent of Russian gas.

Thom Hartmann: Right. The Italians are looking at prosecuting CIA officers who were committing kidnapping on Italian soil. There had been talk in Germany of going after the former defense secretary. Do you think that there’s any hope that some of our political criminals from the previous administration will ever be held to account, perhaps in foreign countries?

Bob Amsterdam: Well, I think it’s possible but I think it would be so much more important to have a truth commission and find out what happened during the last 8 years. That’s much more important than the prosecution.

Thom Hartmann: Like South Africa did.

Bob Amsterdam: We need that desperately because we’ve gotta make sure that that doesn’t happen again.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah, yeah. It really was, it’s a blot, it’s a blight on the United States and a tragic one. Robert Amsterdam, Bob Amsterdam, AmsterdamAndPeroff is the website. I hope you’re not worried about some guy walking up with an umbrella and touching your neck.

Bob Amsterdam: Well I try not to think about that. Thanks very much.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah, okay. Keep up the good work, sir. Thank you for being on our program.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.