Thom Hartmann: On the line with us, Katrina vanden Heuvel, the editor and publisher of The Nation Magazine since 1995, co editor and editor of several books including the most recent, "Going Rouge! Sarah Palin: an American nightmare". And for those of you watching on Free Speech TV, on Dish Network, I’m holding the book up here to the camera. And Katrina, welcome to the show.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Thank you Thom. Yeah we didn’t mince words with an American nightmare, we tried to make sure it was set off from Going Rogue.

Thom Hartmann: Oh and I love, you know, there’s this picture of her with the trademark smile looking off into the sky and behind her a lightning bolt coming out of a black cloud, you know, it’s like this is, this is, these are scary times, scary times.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Well, she’s a climate denier but you know, it’s scary because she has this brand. And she kind of drapes this hard right ideology, ideas in this folksy rhetoric and package. And that’s pretty, it’s a potent combination. And the book, I think, kind of does a good job of exposing a whole set of myths, I might say lies, that have been pushed by Palin and her base.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah. Katrina, we’re talking with Katrina vanden Heuvel, publisher of The Nation, the website TheNation.com, isn’t it?

Katrina vanden Heuvel: It is .com. We’ve been profit seeking but not profit attaining for 144 years.

Thom Hartmann: Okay, TheNation.com. And then this book, of course, is published by Or Books, OrBooks.com. And, the, it, one of the things that strikes me about Sarah Palin is that the last time I recall a politician having this level of brand inconsistency with reality, where the brand is really, really strong and it is clearly represented in the minds of its followers and yet it is inconsistent with the reality of the person, is Ronald Reagan.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Interesting. Yeah, no, I think that’s a fair parallel. I see signs of Richard Nixon / his vice President Spiro Agnew as well, because a big part of what Palin is doing is not only stoking fear and resentment among people in this country at a time of economic pain, and we know where that can lead, but it’s also that she portrays herself as a victim of the media, of the media elite, which again is a disconnect, you raise the smart. It’s a disconnect between the reality and the brand and this ongoing relentless portrayal of herself as a victim. Because she in fact was discovered as Jane Mayer in a wonderful piece in this collection, a piece in the New Yorker reports you know with Bill Kristol and Fred Barnes and, you know, people, come on, if they’re not part of the media establishment, who are?

Thom Hartmann:Right, no, absolutely. And I think frankly she’s following Nixon’s strategy after he lost in what was it?

Katrina vanden Heuvel: ’62? I think, no. Uh oh we’re gonna… when he lost for governor.

Thom Hartmann: In any case, yeah, when he ran for governor and lost he said you’re not gonna have Dick to kick around anymore. And what he did for the next couple of years was he traveled around the country helping Republicans and earning points and, you know, and earning loyalty. And raising money. And I think she’s doing that. And what concerns me, and this is where I raise the issue of her brand and Ronald Reagan’s brand, is I remember very well six months before the election of 1980 when Reagan was running against Carter and those of us who supported Carter, this was before the hostages were taken, or before the hostages, before it became a crisis.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Yes.

Thom Hartmann: And Carter was 12, 14 points ahead of Ronald Reagan and nobody thought that there was any possibility that Reagan could win that election. And nobody knew that in the back channel Bill Casey was talking to the Iranians and that they would hold those hostages. And that we all made fun of Reagan, you know, he was Ronnie Ray-gun, I mean, none of us took him seriously. He was a cartoon character. His movies were him and a chimp.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: You know, I have to say, Thom, if I might just take issue with that. The Nation at that time was edited by a man named Terry McWilliams who had written some of the great books about California and had witnessed Ronald Reagan's rise as governor of California. This man Terry McWilliams was the housing and immigration commissioner in the late ‘20s with Upton Sinclair. But he saw in Reagan something, what we’re discussing now with Palin, on a much broader scale in some ways, but someone who could deform and distort, degrade our politics. So there were people who had followed Reagan from the ground up, who understood.

Thom Hartmann: Who saw it coming. Well that’s what concerns me is that I am concerned that, you know, it’s very fashionable in our circles to ridicule Sarah Palin and first of all your book, “Going Rouge, Sarah Palin, an American Nightmare,” you read this book and you get it that this is nobody that we should be laughing at, this is somebody that we should be taking seriously, as much as there are some very funny things in the book.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Yeah.

Thom Hartmann: But I am concerned that in 2012 she may have the potential to be a Reagan. Do you think that I’m either deluded or paranoid?

Katrina vanden Heuvel: You know, I agree with you Thom, and the book I think does what you say it does, which is, yeah, she is the gift that keeps on giving, many democrats believe, but she represents something that must be taken seriously. And I do think that in 2012 we cannot count her out. At the moment I would describe her more as a media star, travelling this country, raking in big speaking bucks after walking out on her state. But I'll tell you, the bigger picture in my view is that the country has changed since Reagan passed the scene, passed away, and also you have, you know, you have a Republican Party in turmoil. And it is becoming a rump of a Republican Party and the demographic trends in this country don’t favor it. I mean you have the increased, the Latino population, young people. At the moment I think 20% self identify as Republicans. But the party is gonna need to find a candidate. I think Mike Huckabee in some way has been marginalized in these last days because ...

Thom Hartmann: Yes. Because of the release, yeah.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: The killings, the shootings in Washington state, but you can’t discount her.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah, I always thought it was gonna be Mitt Romney because he’s got the money and he’s got the connections and he’s, but, and maybe it will be a Romney / Palin ticket. Who knows, it’s way too early to tell.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Never say never. And I just, I do worry that if a Republican Party is taken over by what I consider the irrational right, what that means in a country which is poor and has only two political parties.

Thom Hartmann: Yeah, it’s a very dangerous thing. Katrina vanden Heuvel, TheNation.com, OrBooks.com, the book, “Going Rouge: Sarah Palin, an American Nightmare.” Thank you Katrina.

Katrina vanden Heuvel: Thank you Thom.

Transcribed by Suzanne Roberts, Portland Psychology Clinic.