May 14 2009 show notes

  • Dick Cheney seems to have won. Why is he touring around? Newsweek ad. It is less likely that he is trying to pee in the jury pool, but a picture is worth a thousand words, there are some sects in Judaism and Islam that do not allow photos, and Thom's mentor Herr Müller believes they are against the first commandment - graven images. When you remember people, do you remember them as they were in real life, or do you remember a photo of them? Thom can teach kids to remember the bill of rights using imagery. If we release the torture photos and say this is a horror that we will not do again, it will not only not put troops in harms way, it will enhance their safety.
  • Clip:
    "Now, let me also say a few words about an issue that I know you asked Robert Gibbs about quite a bit today, and that's my decision to argue against the release of additional detainee photos. Understand, these photos are associated with closed investigations of the alleged abuse of detainees in our ongoing war effort.

    And I want to emphasize that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib, but they do represent conduct that did not conform with the Army Manual.

    That's precisely why they were investigated -- and, I might add, investigated long before I took office -- and, where appropriate, sanctions have been applied.

    In other words, this is not a situation in which the Pentagon has concealed or sought to justify inappropriate action. Rather, it has gone through the appropriate and regular processes. And the individuals who were involved have been identified, and appropriate actions have been taken.

    It's therefore my belief that the publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals. In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to further inflame anti-American opinion and to put our troops in greater danger.

    Moreover, I fear the publication of these photos may only have a chilling effect on future investigations of detainee abuse. And obviously the thing that is most important in my mind is making sure that we are abiding by the Army Manual and that we are swiftly investigating any instances in which individuals have not acted appropriately, and that they are appropriately sanctioned. That's my aim and I do not believe that the release of these photos at this time would further that goal.

    Now, let me be clear: I am concerned about how the release of these photos would be -- would impact on the safety of our troops.

    I have made it very clear to all who are within the chain of command, however, of the United States Armed Forces that the abuse of detainees in our custody is prohibited and will not be tolerated. I have repeated that since I've been in office, Secretary Gates understands that, Adm. Mullen understands that, and that has been communicated across the chain of command.

    Any abuse of detainees is unacceptable. It is against our values. It endangers our security. It will not be tolerated. All right. Thank you very much, everybody.

    "
    In his own words: What Obama said about detainee abuse photos.
  • So it would appear that torture was not confined to Abu Ghraib, so it was not just Lynndie England, etc., so releasing the photos would require prosecutions. Janice Karspinki said 3 years ago on the show that she was a scapegoat. Three possibilities:
    1: would require investigations
    2. Obama being blackmailed by the CIA, or pressurized by Democrats?
    3. or the photos include what Sy Hersh said 2 years ago: kids being tortured and raped. John Yoo.
  • Clip:
    [Doug Cassel]: "If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?"

    [John Yoo]: "No treaty."

    [Doug Cassel]: "Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo."

    [John Yoo]: "I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that".
    December 1, 2005 debate in Chicago.

  • KSM's children were taken before he was, and we do not know where they are. If cover the torture up, we will create a generation of torture deniers. Al-Libi gave in, and has now committed suicide in Libya.
  • Article: Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More .
  • Maybe Obama wants the court to force him to release the photos, to set a legal precedent, but the Supreme Court leans right wing. The consequences.
  • Bumper Music: One Headlight, The Wallflowers (video).
  • Bumper Music: I'm A Nazi, Rush Limbaugh / WNNX-FM (Atlanta, GA) (video).
  • Article: Rep. Shadegg Dismisses Rush Limbaugh As Just ‘A Television Personality’.
  • How long before Rep. Shadegg goes to I'm Sorry Rush? 48 hours at a guess.
  • The whole world is watching, Obama ran on transparency. people will imagine the worst.
  • Discipline in combat is essential. Disobedience to the law of war dishonors the Nation, the Marine Corps, and the individual Marine, and far from weakening the enemy's will to fight, it strengthens it. The following principles require the Marine's adherence in the accomplishment of any mission. Violations have an adverse impact on public opinion both national and international and have on occasion served to prolong conflict by inciting an opponent to continue resistance and in most cases constitute violations of the UCMJ. Violations of these principles prejudice the good order and discipline essential to success in combat.

    1. Marines fight only enemy combatants.

    2. Marines do not harm enemies who surrender. They must disarm them and turn them over to their superior.

    3. Marines do not kill or torture prisoners.

    4. Marines collect and care for the wounded, whether friend or foe.

    5. Marines do not attack medical personnel, facilities, or equipment.

    6. Marines destroy no more than the mission requires.

    7. Marines treat all civilians humanely.

    8. Marines do not steal. Marines respect private property and possessions.

    9. Marines should do their best to prevent violations of the law of war. They must report all violations of the law of war to their superior.

    The United States Marine Essential Subjects.

  • Quote: "As a matter of fact, in interviews in 1999 with respected journalist, and long time Bush family friend, Micky [David] Herskowitz, then Governor George Bush stated: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief. My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. If I have a chance to invade, if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.'" Cindy Sheehan, My Testimony for the Downing Street Memo Hearings, June 16 2005.
  • Role of Patriot Act? Thom thinks it has to do with Obama bowing to pressure - but from whom?
  • Why does the media give all this air time to Cheney? Because he is the most recent Vice President. More to the point, why didn't they push harder with questions?
  • Clip:
    [Doug Cassel]: "If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?"

    [John Yoo]: "No treaty."

    [Doug Cassel]: "Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo."

    [John Yoo]: "I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that".
    December 1, 2005 debate in Chicago.

  • Bumper Music: Don't Let Me Down, Beatles (video).
  • Quote: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities". Voltaire
  • Article: Palin-Prejean Alliance Predicted in Book of Revelations: Beauty Queens Prefigure End of Days.
  • Article: Grand unified scandal.
    "Let’s say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.

    There’s a word for this: it’s evil.

    "
  • Article: Lawrence Wilkerson Drops an Iraq-Torture Bombshell, Bob Fertik.
    "The "smoking gun" of the Iraq-Torture Scandal will be proof that the CIA took Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi away from the FBI in February 2002 and sent him to Egypt for one specific reason: to use torture to extract a false confession of Iraq-Al Qaeda ties."
  • Article: Congress and Waterboarding: Nancy Pelosi was an accomplice to 'torture.' Karl Rove.
  • Article: Graham: CIA Gave Me False Information About Interrogation Briefings.
  • Article: The photos America doesn't want seen, Matthew Moore, February 15, 2006.
  • Bumper Music: For America, Jackson Browne.
  • Bumper Music: The Mail Must Go Through, Larry Groce & The Disneyland Children's Sing Along Chorus (clip).
  • B Rol asked on the day's blog why people have to register just to read the messages. Thom said he would get it fixed.
  • Article: Pelosi says CIA lied to Congress. Boehner says CIA did not.
    "The CIA briefed me only once on some enhanced interrogation techniques in September 2002 in my capacity as Ranking Member of the Intelligence Committee. I was informed then that the Department of Justice's opinions had concluded that the use of enhanced interrogation techniques were legal. The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed. Those conducting the briefing promised to inform the appropriate Members of Congress if that technique were to be used in the future."
  • Bumper Music: I Am A Patriot, Jackson Browne.
  • Bumper Music: Crazy, Gnarls Barkley.
  • Article: Yuck! 7 hospitalized after office fridge cleanup.
  • Blowback. Obama must release the pictures, and say that we don't do that any more. Where is the change? The photos were leaked 3 years ago but there are many more. Europe has seen stuff we have not. Europeans are saying, we see nothing changes. Lots who worked on Obama's campaign are wondering why they bothered. Almost all world hotspots are blowback from British and America interference.
  • Cheney believes the more you say lies, the more people believe. Full disclosure will reveal the good guys too, dissenters. American identity crisis.
  • Don't forget there are also laws of assault.
  • Obama is doing it right and people like Thom hold a myopic view, destroying coalition? There are other issues as important. Thom said Hitler got trains running on time, education, while eviscerating human rights. Obama is not Bush, not even close.
  • Bumper Music: I've got a feeling, Beatles.
  • Bumper Music: You can leave your hat on, Randy Newman.
  • Article: Ex-Pharmacist Wanted For Craigslist Sex Ad Revenge.
  • The Department of Justice let Ted Stevens go, but are still after Siegelman, and the same judges and prosecutors are in place.
  • How horrible does the truth have to be to not face it? The rest of the world sees it. What if the Germans had never faced their truth?
  • Upcoming Event: May 21 - 22 Show live from 1080 KUDO, Anchorage, Alaska. May 22 Thom will speak at the IBEW annual Progress Meeting (Western States) at the Hotel Captain Cook on Friday from 10 - 11 am (ADT).
  • Guest: constitutional law expert Bruce Fein.
    "Bruce Fein is a columnist for The Washington Times, an attorney, and a political critic. He was part of the American Bar Association's Task Force on Presidential Signing Statements and appears regularly on CNN, NPR, and the BBC." His book, "Constitutional Peril: The Life and Death Struggle for Our Constitution and Democracy". “Torture…prosecute or pardon?” He was an associate deputy attorney general under Reagan. They have talked before about the impeachment of Bush, that is now off the table. Is Obama perpetuating the coverup? Continuation of Bush/Cheney mentality, national security paramount. Two courts have said the photos must be released, national security not enough. 1984. What ought to happen, courts should insist, only the Supreme Court is left. We know they mean something, emotional element. There are lots of photos on the web that terrorists are using to recruit, without them needing these too. Obama has claimed broader powers for state secrets than Bush. Enemy combatants name change. Fein was calling for the impeachment of bush, what now? This was torture, they are boasting, have confessed, there is no exception in law. Pardon them or investigate and prosecute, no other option. Setting a precedent that lies around as a smoking gun for any future president. At least Ford pardoned and took the heat. Under the rug is political cowardice.
  • Bumper Music: For What It's Worth, Buffalo Springfield (video).
  • Guest: successful advertiser: Natasha Trenev, probiotic pioneer, Natren. They deliver their product cooled. They advertise on KTLK AM1150 Los Angeles. 1-866-4-NATREN (1-866-462-8736).
  • Comparisons with Hitler.
  • Bumper Music: If Youre Going Through Hell, Rodney Atkins (video).
  • Now that Rove has designated Pelosi an accomplice, is it a confession?.
  • Clip: SF's Medea Benjamin yells "War Criminal!" at Rumsfeld.
  • What if people shouted when Bybee in court? Bybee declined to appear before a Senate panel.
  • The torture cases should go to international court? Numbers of dead, numbers of refugees, just for political capital, America's reputation destroyed, constitution shredded.
  • Prosecute because they are still there. Negraponte, deaths. Poindexter's Carnivore. Iran Contra legacy of Bill Clinton letting them go.
  • If Bush thought torture was legal, couldn't he have written an executive order? Instead he got counsel opinion. The reason given has nothing to do with legality.
  • The Spanish judge and General Pinochet.
  • Bumper Music: Lives in the Balance, Jackson Browne (video).
  • Member of day was Robb who won a copy of a DVD of Dalai Lama Renaissance in which Thom appears, for quoting: “The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers”-Carl Gustav Jung.
  • Ellen Ratner of Talk Radio News. Capitol Hill, Pelosi press conference, she read a statement about torture. Bob Graham, who is OCD and makes notes of everything he does, said the CIA's dates were wrong. The piece de resistance was John Boehner straight after, saying the CIA had never lied to him. The CIA's business is lying, their bread and butter. Obama caved? Why is Cheney out and about? Later press conference. Jobless claims up. Prices up. Credit card debt. Obama in town hall, prepared remarks, saying there have to be strong protections for consumers.
  • ADHD: Hunter in a Farmer's World

    Thom Hartmann has written a dozen books covering ADD / ADHD - Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder.

    Join Thom for his new twice-weekly email newsletters on ADHD, whether it affects you or a member of your family.

    Thom's Blog Is On the Move

    Hello All

    Thom's blog in this space and moving to a new home.

    Please follow us across to hartmannreport.com - this will be the only place going forward to read Thom's blog posts and articles.